Red Bull RB6

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.

Post Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:42 am

So does anyone have any opinions on what we will see from Adrian Newey's pen for 2010?

Personally I think it is a dead cert that Renault engines will power the RB6 and that AN will continue with his ultra-low CG design and even keep the pull-rod rear suspension design.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos
 
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:16 pm

Red Bull's Christian Horner revealed that the 2010 car – the RB6 – will be built around German star Sebastian Vettel
Future is like walking into past......

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bar555
 
Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Location: Greece - Athens

Post Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:09 pm

I think we'll see a much higher tail this year in order to increase the wake pattern and provide more room for tunnels, er ah double deck diffusers. I'm not sure about the pull rod rear suspension. The pull rod might still be used if they find that they can optimize packaging with it. I think you'll see the floor/splitter areas in front of the sidepods get longer to maximize floor area as far forwards as possible too.

IMO it's all about optimizing the diffuser design and getting the aero center of pressure as far forward in the car as possible.
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:29 am

bar555 wrote:Red Bull's Christian Horner revealed that the 2010 car – the RB6 – will be built around German star Sebastian Vettel


No surprise there!

Luckily for RedBull, Vettel and Webber have very similar driving styles and want basically the same thing from their cars - makes AN's job much simpler! (relatively speaking)
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos
 
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:19 pm

its clear they see vettel as number 1, and want a championship challenge with 1 driver not 2
mstar
 
Joined: 26 May 2009

Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:08 pm

After the Abu Dahbi race it was confirmed in my mind that Vettel's raw speed is superior to Webber's. Horner more than likely saw this too, so yeah I believe that they will focus more on Vettel. What webber has to do know is try to psychologically intimidate Vettel from the start because if the car is the quick on low fuel then Vettel will be at the front of the grid all the time and that will be major problem if Webber who relies more on race craft, wants to pass Vettel. If the car is not front row quality then definitely Webber will shine more.
"You can't change what happened. But you can still change what will happen.
Sebastian Vettel"
PlatinumZealot
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2008

Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:17 pm

I wonder if there will be a broader duck bill than what he saw at silverstone with the rb5?
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:35 pm

n smikle wrote:...Webber who relies more on race craft, wants to pass Vettel. If the car is not front row quality then definitely Webber will shine more.

amazing what 1 season does to a driver's reputation. prior to '09, Mark was regarded as a great qualifier, but inconsistent over a race distance. In quali, he was only beaten 10-7 fuel adjusted this season.


I'm surprised Red Bull haven't announced their engine supplier. Surely by now they've decided internally, what would hold off an announcement now?
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Fil
 
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:48 pm

I think it will still be renault. That engine is not as weak as it appears. I think they know it being more recently developed than the other motors has a slight advantage. The renault engines seem to be fuel efficient too. The power it has is anyone's guess.
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:49 pm

n smikle wrote:After the Abu Dahbi race it was confirmed in my mind that Vettel's raw speed is superior to Webber's. Horner more than likely saw this too, so yeah I believe that they will focus more on Vettel. What webber has to do know is try to psychologically intimidate Vettel from the start because if the car is the quick on low fuel then Vettel will be at the front of the grid all the time and that will be major problem if Webber who relies more on race craft, wants to pass Vettel. If the car is not front row quality then definitely Webber will shine more.


Since we've kind of gotten off the car for the moment I guess I'll chime in. Webo was broken at Silverstone IMO. He was able to prove dominance in Germany however, and handed Vettel a pure and clean defeat. Is he as quick as Vettel? maybe not, but remember that Webber has been driving the whole season injured. He has a lot of "veteran resolve" and will come back strong as nails next year. He knows what a rare opportunity he has. I expect Vettel has a few lessons to yet be learned, such as was displayed in the quali in Brazil. IMO together they make for a great team but Webber is not going cede anything.
BreezyRacer
 
Joined: 3 Nov 2006

Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:03 am

Fil wrote:amazing what 1 season does to a driver's reputation. prior to '09, Mark was regarded as a great qualifier, but inconsistent over a race distance. In quali, he was only beaten 10-7 fuel adjusted this season.


maybe he also got a big knock on the head in the bike crash he had last year
nosh
 
Joined: 23 Jul 2009

Post Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:27 am

nosh wrote:
Fil wrote:amazing what 1 season does to a driver's reputation. prior to '09, Mark was regarded as a great qualifier, but inconsistent over a race distance. In quali, he was only beaten 10-7 fuel adjusted this season.


maybe he also got a big knock on the head in the bike crash he had last year

nope , it shows how Good Seb Vettel is! =D>
siskue2005
 
Joined: 11 May 2007

Post Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:18 am

I have to say the duck bill was very interesting this year. It seems that the wide duck bill was our high df car, and the original thin nose was our slippery car. I was supprised when we reverted back to the thin nose for Spa.

Newey will undoubtly create a car with lots of down force again, but will we be able to create a car that is as good on the other elements of a track. It seemed that by the end of the year we were fast in the slow mechanical stuff as well, ie the final sector in Abu Dhabi. I just hope we have a car that is good on all tracks straight out of the box.

It seems we will still have Renault Engines in 2010, and there have been a few comments about its fuel efficiency, however i was under the impression our fuel efficiency was not good. There were several times when we would quali with what would seem like 3 laps more fuel than the Brawn and then come the race would have to stop on the same lap or just one lap longer than the brawn. Now its possible we altered our strategy to suit and stopped early, but i just thought the Renault was thirsty.

Either way lets hope the car is a cracker and can fend of the challanges from Ferrari and Macca. Im not overly concerned by Mercedes as the car will be a brawn developed machaine. They have not had the resourses to create as good a car as Honda did for them last season. Mercedes money will help affairs but that will take a year or so. I dont think we need to take too many guesses as to why Jens jumped ship. If it was going to be a front runner then they would have a better line up than Rosberg and a vacant seat at this point in time.

There will be a lot of carry over performance from the 09 to 10 cars, and hence we should be well placed as by the end of the season our car was the class of the field. So if we nail everything, get a bit more reliable we should go well.
SoliRossi
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:11 am

SoliRossi wrote:I have to say the duck bill was very interesting this year. It seems that the wide duck bill was our high df car, and the original thin nose was our slippery car. I was supprised when we reverted back to the thin nose for Spa.

Newey will undoubtly create a car with lots of down force again, but will we be able to create a car that is as good on the other elements of a track. It seemed that by the end of the year we were fast in the slow mechanical stuff as well, ie the final sector in Abu Dhabi. I just hope we have a car that is good on all tracks straight out of the box.

It seems we will still have Renault Engines in 2010, and there have been a few comments about its fuel efficiency, however i was under the impression our fuel efficiency was not good. There were several times when we would quali with what would seem like 3 laps more fuel than the Brawn and then come the race would have to stop on the same lap or just one lap longer than the brawn. Now its possible we altered our strategy to suit and stopped early, but i just thought the Renault was thirsty.

Either way lets hope the car is a cracker and can fend of the challanges from Ferrari and Macca. Im not overly concerned by Mercedes as the car will be a brawn developed machaine. They have not had the resourses to create as good a car as Honda did for them last season. Mercedes money will help affairs but that will take a year or so. I dont think we need to take too many guesses as to why Jens jumped ship. If it was going to be a front runner then they would have a better line up than Rosberg and a vacant seat at this point in time.

There will be a lot of carry over performance from the 09 to 10 cars, and hence we should be well placed as by the end of the season our car was the class of the field. So if we nail everything, get a bit more reliable we should go well.


There is a reason Christian Horner wants to continue using the Renault engine, remember it had permission from other teams to be developed recently. Meaning it has some advantages in terms of fuel efficiency which is critical for next year.
here is an article concerning the different constructor engine performance:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/11/analysis-of-f1-engine-performance-in-2009/

I don't think the engine is all that weak either; I believe the RB5 chassis is a natural creator of downforce. So even with the wings at their lowest downforce setting; it may still have considerable downforce innately present about the chassis. Maybe if we strip all the cars of their wings and put the body shells in a wind tunnel, the RB5 will have the most downforce.
This can give the impression of a weak engine, after all is done to reduce downforce for straight line performance but have no noticable result in top speed. Next year they may have a similar chassis to this year but have a special nose, side pod, floor, engine cover package for Monza.

And about brawn 2010 car, was it funded by Honda? because if it is it could be another superior machine.
As a Mclaren fan I am afraid of what Newey is going to do next, i can't imagine how much better the RB6 is going to be, the RB5 was too damn good!
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Post Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:02 am

Ringo that is a great response. I actually completely agree with your theory about the rbr body work generating the most down force of all cars. And i think that is what caused RBR to have to revert to the slim nose at certain tracks. As possibly the wide nose set up, even with wings at a minimum, still generated to much df for some tracks.

James Allens article was great, i saw that on my RSS this morning as well. Well that is great news about the Renault fuel efficiency as even if the engine engine is down on power it can run with less fuel and have a lighter car, in turn have better lap times when fully fueled.

I thought RBR had confirmed use of the Renault engine for 2010, but is there an uncertainty about weahter Renault will continue in the sport? If they pull out it will certainly compramise RBR's 2010 season.

My understanding with Mercedes is as follows; 2009 Brawn GP car was developed by Honda over 2008. Someone correct me if im wrong but they had 1 full size wind tunnel and 2 60% tunnels creating what would become BGP01. Thus it was probably the heaviest resourced car on teh grid at the start of 2009. But the Merc/Brawn 2010 machaine has been developed by BrawnGP over the 2009 season.

Whilst Mercedes will bring lots of money none of it has been avaliable to create the car up until now. So I imagine that the Mercedes 2010 car will be less developed that the likes of the 2010 Ferrari, Macca and RBR. There have also been several articles stating that Matecizch(?) has increased his investment into RBR.
SoliRossi
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

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