Virgin MVR-02 Cosworth

[donskar]

I think its design is just driven by drivability of the car. For example, strakes generate downforce yes, but these get annoying under yaw and pitch. The upward out edge reduces effects of pitch, maing the car more drivable under for example braking.

Furthermore about the car, I stand my point earlier that the car isnt bad, its execution is just sloppy, imo they can gain good time just by the building process. The gearbox and engine aren't helping either to the overall performance, which imo is more likely for performance lack then the car itself.

And what bothers me most is how people talk about how bad their approach is and how much better Team lotus is going while Team Lotus cant even get the power steering right.

I commend you for pulling for an underdog, but look at the sections I bolded above: sloppy execution + sub-par engine and transmission = car isn't bad? I wish them luck, but can't take them seriously at this point.

[wesley123]

with the execution I ment the quality it is built. The design overall is imo decent, but if it is built with low quality you still have nothing.

The car itself is pretty decent, but the quality with which is built isnt, same for the gearbox and engine, although the Cosworth isnt that bad either.

[marcush.]

I don´t get your comment ..sloppy, badly executed? based on what evidence ? We have seen them being not on top of their fuel calculations as a starter ,then a very considerable lack of understanding of hydraulics and fuel pickup/supply a miscalculation /lack of understanding with the front wing and a really big lack of outright performance.We have seen them being slow in pitstops as well and the rate of updates reaching the car was not that great ...we have seen them struggle to make those updates improve laptimes ...

[ESPImperium]

The only good point about the Virgin is that its got about the same downforce as the T128, however the T128 started with more downforce than the T127, the MVR/02 started with only a tenth less than 2010 season ending package.

The one thing thay have is a inferior technichal package, they are loosing time without a seemless shift box and a better gearbox and they also need to get a better mechanichal package, as they are seemingly missing some parts like J Dampers and some specialist inerters that WRT couldnt integrate into the chassis.

The Design is decent, however i think it needs refining, a little more aggressive, its too conservitive.

I think that Virgin will be last again this year as Hispania will eclipse them for the remainder of the season due to them maximising their 2011 package better. Virgin need to stop 2011 now and concentrate on 2012 now, as this is the only way they can get to where Lotus are at present.

[marcush.]

MVR-02 Virgin/Wirth was a realistic progress from year one expecting much more was always a bit naive and romantic.Having to deal with all the new regs was going to inevitably throw some spanners in their running and considering how other teams struggled in year two of their gestation they at least did not drop like a stone.
A little more patience was needed.
And.. they retain a lot of people from Wirth ,including the facility... maybe this was all just a clash of personalities more than anything else.
In the end it will cost now a lot more ,rest assured Mclaren is very good at writing invoices with yet unknown numbers to Virgin methinks ... Marussia will need deep pockets to keep this afloat.

[scarbs]

The Xtrac gearbox does have a seamless shift. Perhaps the mechanicals are little heavier, but with the mandatory weight distrubition, weight at the rear isnt an issue anymore. The hydraulics were the let down in 2011, I havent noted any major problems on that front this year. Then the casing is Virgins own, so I dont see where the gearbox is a handicap?

[marcush.]

yep.Of course a lighter box will open up opportun ities to lower CofG heights..no question and surely the pushrod layout is not best suited for the cannon style EBD..so the gains to be found in that area are mainly aero and kers related (as the lighter box could open doors for kers component placement)...

But .Where do the new team lag behind really? to me this is still not obvious .

[scarbs]

Surely pushrod is perfectly suited to EBD, the hardware is mounted up out of the way for a narrower lower gearbox profile.

IMO virgin have suffered as they've sought only to make a better engineered version of the VR01. There's been no innovation or progression. Force India did largely the same this year and havent progressed either. Even HRT with their logical remake of the 2010 car have kept pace with Virgin

Look at Lotus, their car is far more advanced with its concepts, this brings laptimes. but Lotus are still struggling with some of its engineering (hydraulcs and steering feel).

[forty-two]

...and steering feel).

I think that depends upon which driver you ask actually. Heikki doesn't seem to mind!

[TzeiTzei]

http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/07/08/glock ... en-tie-up/

As for any hope of a dramatic improvement when the McLaren tunnel programme begins, he explained: “Unfortunately we have the two week summer break coming up, where the factories are closed.”

And Wirth’s scheduled Silverstone development has been called off.

“Maybe we’ll do something for Singapore,” said Glock. “This is still not decided.”

“Only if we find something in the straight line testing or the wind tunnel that can be a big step forward without much effort, we will act now. Otherwise, I do not expect any big jumps (this year),” added Glock. “Our direct competition, unfortunately, is already far ahead.”

So, Wirth was supposed to give the team one last push at Silverstone, but that didn't happen. I wonder why, as i kind a thought they would have introduced a new version of the EDB. On the other hand, the current car is so bad there isn't much point in putting too much money into it.

The wind tunnel program at McLaren will start shortly, but i don't expect it to bring much new parts to this car. It has to be all about 2012 now. Sure they could try some stuff in this year's car aswell, just to see if it works.

[marcush.]

The car is bad enough to beat one of the hailed lotus...If only for a derailled Trulli.
Silverstone is a true Aero track and Glock is flying with that sh..box...I really think Wirth has done the decent thing this year consolidating the work done and erasing the major reliability shortcomings.
Compare to lotus ...they are struggling with a half baked effort in alot of areas of engineering -power rsteering a never ending story and hydraulic glitches ...something we had counted as one of the benefits of changing engine and gearbox supply has turned out to be a weakness.

The MVR-02 is a very conservative iteration of the VR01 but I think this was an entirely sensible approach for Virgin in all reality.You first have to learn to crawl before attempting to sprint on two legs..Never ever they were in a position to jump ahead of Toro Rosso or Lotus this year.

[siwillems]

Do virgin have DRS

[ESPImperium]

Do virgin have DRS :?:

Yes, as all cars must have DRS.

[marcush.]

again the MVR-02 has beaten a Lotus in the hands of Glock ,who was not happy with the car at all and said they are unable to get the car setup spot on as they had it in Valencia.So his lap was a bit dirty not perfect at all with lots of little mishaps ...
Shame on Lotus and Gascoynes team ....to be only 1 second ahead of a less than perfect setup MVR02.

Again clear indicationb that Wirth did a respectable year two job and it remains to be seen just how quickly the Mclaren connection can improve on this or if its another we need three years to show something story...

[ESPImperium]

I think this car is showing its not as bad as we think. I think there is another couple of small upgrades to come, but theese are more detail upgrades than anything else, probably a couple to three tenths total.

I think this car is more or less finalised for the rest of the season, excluding the GP at Monza, Spa will use the same wings as Canada id recon. So they can then develop the package from setup alone and gain time from that will probably bring arround half a second.

Glock is moaning, but he just had to grin and bear it for another 6 months and id recon he will have a car that is what he would want for a baseline. Next years car is being worked on at present, id recon that the 2012 car will be much like a Pat Symmonds design, and if they take the McLaren gearbox and stick with Cosworth they will have a credible package, however they could go Mercedes power if Renault are picking up a 4th team for 2012-2014. It would only make Mercedes stronger i think, as well as a place for Mercedes to place Sam Bird or McLaren Garry Paffett as well.

Virgin have done a good job, they just need to work with the car now and time will come from set-up. The one plus point is that they have the second best CFD facility in F1, as Renault now have the best after a upgrade in the pase few months. They have a Simulator, and they also have a wealth of outsource contractors. They also have one of the best consultants in modren F1 in Pat Symmonds at the moment, i think that he will stay at Virgin for 2013 as TD as i think that Sam Michael will be either Silverstone bound with Force India or Brackley bound with Hispania.

Im looking forward to seeing the MVR/03, just have to grin and bear the MVR/02 at the moment as it is a pig that isnt as bad as it could be for what its budget and resources have to offer on a creative and financial point of view.