Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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PNSD
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006, 18:10

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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ringo wrote:
marcush. wrote:Koba a little bit tongue in cheek saying he was not planning to fight going into lescombes..all he needed was to lift a little bit..but he was really late on the brakes...when lewis obviously was not late braking..
I think drivers like Kob, feel like they have something to prove when they come up against Lewis, who Kob has respect for.
I think he got a little too frisky when he knew that it was Hamilton he was battling.

Very surprised to see him go so deep when his wing is damaged, and he had no real chance of taking back the position. Expected him to lift and chose a faster entry and exit.
All i can think is that he got a little star struck. This looks to be the reason Lewis meets in so many strange incidents.
It's hard to tell. Are you joking or are you completely serious?

Overall, a good race. Just when you think RedBull and Sebastian have lost their edge they come back as strong as ever. Huge amount of respect for the team, and Vettel. It was never until I let go of my blind hatred for Ferrari and Schumacher that I really appreciated what I witnessed as I watched them win race after race. I am just glad I am able to appreciate, and witness the performances of Vettel and RedBull.

As for the Lewis incident. It was clearly a racing incident. However im sure driving instructors throughout the world were screaming at their TV's. An example of what happens when you move without looking ;-). If there was any blame to lay it was certainly in the direction of Lewis. At least however he had the decency to admit this himself.

CHT
CHT
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Aced wrote:
No no, I don't think you understand. Vettel finished first – that means *he* was the fastest driver today.
No dude, that just means that Vettel finished first and won...
Hard to tell if button is actually the fastest unless we can be sure that both Vettel or Webber were both pushing their car to the limit towards the end of the race.

CHT
CHT
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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beelsebob wrote: I say 50% hamilton for moving too far over, 50% kobayashi for being somewhere dumb.
you are hilarious :D

Lycoming
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Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 22:58

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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I think both of them were a bit surprised by how much Kobayashi came back at Hamilton. Hamilton just didnt consider the possibility that he would be there (and by the time he got there he would have been looking at the apex anyways). Kobayashi was equally surprised to have gotten so deep on him. Almost like he was just on the racing line and by combo of high top speed and late braking, got alongside Lewis.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Lycoming wrote:I think both of them were a bit surprised by how much Kobayashi came back at Hamilton. Hamilton just didnt consider the possibility that he would be there (and by the time he got there he would have been looking at the apex anyways). Kobayashi was equally surprised to have gotten so deep on him. Almost like he was just on the racing line and by combo of high top speed and late braking, got alongside Lewis.
The way I see it they both got DRS which Lewis probably did not realize. As a result he did not think that Koba was still alongside. Lewis drifted left all the way up the hill and that was basically it. He cut Kobayashi all the space when Kamui needed to turn in. The Sauber turns in less sharply than the McLaren. So Lewis would probably have left him one or two feet of space if he had been aware of the speed of the Sauber. I think that is the reason why he took the blame eventually. He assumed that Kamui was behind and the guy wasn't.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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WhiteBlue wrote:
The way I see it they both got DRS which Lewis probably did not realize. As a result he did not think that Koba was still alongside. Lewis drifted left all the way up the hill and that was basically it. He cut Kobayashi all the space when Kamui needed to turn in. The Sauber turns in less sharply than the McLaren. So Lewis would probably have left him one or two feet of space if he had been aware of the speed of the Sauber. I think that is the reason why he took the blame eventually. He assumed that Kamui was behind and the guy wasn't.
This is koba explanation

"I knew that I could not fight because he was much quicker than me," said Kobayashi. "He overtook me and was using the DRS rear wing, which I didn't. I was just using KERS, but we were running very low downforce and that's why I caught him up again.

Mr.S
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Joined: 09 Apr 2011, 18:21

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Lewis Hamilton has apologised to Kamui Kobayashi and accepted full responsibility for their collision at the Belgian Grand Prix.

The McLaren driver retired at Spa after he made contact with the Japanese driver early in the race. The front-right tyre on the Sauber hit the left-rear of the MP4-26 car at speed and Hamilton went ploughing nose first into a crash barriers.

In the aftermath of the accident, Hamilton told BBC Sport "as far as I was concerned I was ahead of whoever it was I was racing and then I just got hit by them and that was my race over".

Kobayashi, meanwhile, claimed the McLaren moved into him, saying "after he overtook me it was not my intention to get my position back, so I stayed on my line and didn't expect him to move over."

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/71360 ... 0-My-Fault
Hamilton, though, has decided to change his account of the incident after watching the replays.

Via his Twitter account, Hamilton said: "After watching the replay, I realize it was my fault today 100%. I didn't give Kobayashi enough room though I thought in (sic) was past.

"Apologies to Kamui and to my team. The team deserves better from me. Best wishes, Lewis."

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raymondu999
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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PNSD wrote:Just when you think RedBull and Sebastian have lost their edge they come back as strong as ever.
It's been quite a theme this year hasn't it? When you expect someone to dominate a track they lose the race. (e.g. Hungary, Silverstone for RBR, Canada (almost) and Spa for McL) When you expect A to beat B at a track, B beats A.

I think Bernie is up to something real funky here :P

Based on that pretext I think we'll see an RBR 1-2 at Monza :P
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

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Traction
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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CHT wrote:
Aced wrote:
No no, I don't think you understand. Vettel finished first – that means *he* was the fastest driver today.
No dude, that just means that Vettel finished first and won...
Hard to tell if button is actually the fastest unless we can be sure that both Vettel or Webber were both pushing their car to the limit towards the end of the race.
Button was certainly quick and even posted the fastest lap but Vettel overtook him later into the race. Vettel was certainly taking it a bit slower during the closing laps though.

In the Q3 session Rosberg had the highest speed clocked at 321, and it showed during the race. In certain stints he was flying but with a wing as skinny as that he must have lost the grip in cornering and kept loosing position. What was awesome to see was how Alonso blew past him through the tight section heading u[p the hill even though Rosberg had the straightline speed.driving skill of note.... 8)
Last edited by Traction on 29 Aug 2011, 10:30, edited 1 time in total.
Generally I don't care about what people say. I have to be clear with myself. When everything goes well, people celebrate you, when you make mistakes people criticize you.
Sebastian Vettel

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Gary
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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WhiteBlue wrote:
Lycoming wrote:I think both of them were a bit surprised by how much Kobayashi came back at Hamilton. Hamilton just didnt consider the possibility that he would be there (and by the time he got there he would have been looking at the apex anyways). Kobayashi was equally surprised to have gotten so deep on him. Almost like he was just on the racing line and by combo of high top speed and late braking, got alongside Lewis.
The way I see it they both got DRS which Lewis probably did not realize. As a result he did not think that Koba was still alongside. Lewis drifted left all the way up the hill and that was basically it. He cut Kobayashi all the space when Kamui needed to turn in. The Sauber turns in less sharply than the McLaren. So Lewis would probably have left him one or two feet of space if he had been aware of the speed of the Sauber. I think that is the reason why he took the blame eventually. He assumed that Kamui was behind and the guy wasn't.
Pretty much agree with both of those comments. Focussing on Lycoming's comment: "Kobayashi was equally surprised to have gotten so deep on him" I think that probably summarises it well, although Kobi-san doesn't quite put it in those words.

However, I would like to express a view on the position that Kobi got himself into and I do this with some trepidation since my experience at braking from 330km/h and turning into Les Combes in close company with another F1 car is strictly limited.

Half way up the hill, Lewis ahead of Kamui, Lewis makes a (legal) jink to the right to (presumably) break the tow. He knew that his car had too much down force dialled in on the day. Approaching Les Combes Kamui starts to come back at Lewis thanks to his own KERS and slightly more slippery configuration. Thing is, he's on the left of the track and that's predictably where the leading car, Lewis's, is going to want to be to turn into a right hander.

From looking at the video over and over (and here I would again cite my humility caveat above), it seems to me pretty apparent that Kamui, whilst he had more momentum than Lewis for a couple of seconds, was not going to get anywhere near to passing Lewis before the turn in point.

And that's the reason, in my view, why Kamui should take more of the blame. In other words, he allowed himself to get into an impossible position. Really, he should have slotted in behind Lewis. Lewis had the corner.

As for Lewis, he clearly felt he was past and he appeared to be 100% focussed on nailing the turn in point. Whether he should have factored in that Kamui might still be coming and coming on his left is certainly a question and one, I think, that is beyond my experience.

So I see it as shared blame but with a bit more going to Kamui. It seems there was no 'attitude' going on... just something that happens in those extreme circumstances. Perhaps that is why the stewards elected to take no action.

I was somewhat intrigued and surprised by Lewis's very servile Mea Culpa on his Twitter. It is almost as though his team has told him that what he doesn't need is aggravation from the FIA, the media or from race fans and that, unless any sin against him is 100% clear cut, it's best to put his hand up, plead guilty and get on with preparing for the next race.

BTW, all the above is on the basis that I don't support or follow any driver or team. I just follow F1 overall.

marcush.
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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some drivers seem to be fought harder than others ,Hamilton an obvious example ,Scumacher a even more obvious one.Alguesuari,Barrichello,Rosberg all seem to go up a few notches in aggressiveness and awareness when the red helmet is in sight.
Last edited by marcush. on 29 Aug 2011, 11:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Jeffsvilleusa
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Ray wrote:My thoughts on why they deployed the SC are because Lewis was unresponsive when the marshal first walked up after the car stopped. Sending the SC out as a precaution was a good call in my opinion because had anything been wrong and he needed attention there would have been no delays in wrangling up the field. ...

I would imagine Lewis is okay after that accident, he didn't seem to be slurring or anything but it's very out of character for him to not know who he was involved in an accident with. He never named Kamui as being involved until after he saw the replay later on. I sincerely hope that isn't an indication of something under the surface. Looked to me like he was unconscious when the marshal came up to the car after it had stopped. Shame he was out of the race because he was going to have a very good race.

...
It was pretty shocking to see Lewis unconscious like that. He didn't brake after his spin when he came to a stop against the wall, so it was likely he was knocked out in the initial impact. I am mostly surprised that no one ever asked Lewis or the team about the crash but everyone only cares about the racing incident.
Box! Box!

andartop
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Interesting article from Autosport about the Red Bull --- tire issue:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94115

Effectively, they tried to blackmail Pirelli, the FIA and the other Teams. I was really annoyed by Mr Newey's comments about how concerned they were about their drivers' safety: if that was the case surely they could afford to start from the pit lane, and maybe get the WDC and WCC 1 race later???

As for Mr Hamilton, he somehow gets himself involved in more "incidents" than any other driver I can remember, including Michael Schumacher and Takuma Sato. He is very fast and an excellent overtaker, but I am afraid he might end up only being remembered as the guy with most reprimands and penalties in the history of F1.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

Mandrake
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Jeffsvilleusa wrote:It was pretty shocking to see Lewis unconscious like that. He didn't brake after his spin when he came to a stop against the wall, so it was likely he was knocked out in the initial impact. I am mostly surprised that no one ever asked Lewis or the team about the crash but everyone only cares about the racing incident.
I thought exactly the same! I watched "Grand Prix - The Killer Years" on Saturday evening and was, for a short time, reminded of some scenes in that movie when Hamilton didn't brake and didn't move at all. Strangely the German RTL commentary realised he wasn't moving, but guessed he might be chatting to his crew. I thought you'd have to push a button on the wheel to do so? His hands were far off the wheel though.

Mr.S
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Last edited by Steven on 29 Aug 2011, 22:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: This discussion was over long ago...

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