Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Poleman
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Well its all media bullcrap,even the apology from Hamilton...He just wants to play nice(Stewards are already after him).Kobayashi on the other hand,what a liar!He said that he wasnt going to challenge to retake the place instead he pulls right from Hamilton to enter the slipstream,he gets blocked and then moves on the outside with ridiculusly late braking.The thing that he actually tried to retake the place is what triggered the whole sequence and reaction from Hamilton's side.

Lewis on the other hand should have given a glance to his left mirror,but given the point and the speed it would mean that he would miss the entry completely.

A nice in-car from the incident by Hamilton's Mclaren:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZiV85eC ... re=related[/youtube]

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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n_anirudh wrote:
Gaara wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS7ZFvOW ... r_embedded[/youtube]

Schumacher overtook a HRT car at the start under yellow flags with no penalty? heh?
Is it just me or are the warning lights/race light--caution alternatively flashing yellow and green??? I paused the video several times and I see yellow and green being given simultaneously.
Schumacher was well clear of the yellow zone when he passed them. His move in La Source and on the exit was to avoid Algersuari and before they got to Eau Rouge the light was green. It appears they had the yellow lights on for that section and not going into Eau Rouge and up the straight. There are lights in zones and he didn't do any illegal overtaking.

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Ray
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Poleman wrote:Well its all media bullcrap,even the apology from Hamilton...He just wants to play nice(Stewards are already after him).Kobayashi on the other hand,what a liar!He said that he wasnt going to challenge to retake the place instead he pulls right from Hamilton to enter the slipstream,he gets blocked and then moves on the outside with ridiculusly late braking.The thing that he actually tried to retake the place is what triggered the whole sequence and reaction from Hamilton's side.

Lewis on the other hand should have given a glance to his left mirror,but given the point and the speed it would mean that he would miss the entry completely.

A nice in-car from the incident by Hamilton's Mclaren:
If you hit someone after you aren't all the way past, it's your fault. No different than doing the same when you don't control the line of the guy you are overtaking on the inside. Yes Kamui could have braked sooner but Lewis hit him, not the other way around. Kamui made no move toward or away from Lewis, Lewis drove across the front of his car and there was contact. Kamui maintained his line and didn't deviate until he was hit. Not deviating from your course and trying to regain your spot aren't the same thing. I don't see what all the fuss is about. It was a racing incident.

Same thing happened to Sato in Iowa recently. Franchitti didn't have enough room on the restart and cut across Sato and crashed himself. Difference is that Franchitti didn't admit his mistake, he blamed the guy he hit without remorse. Not only did he not admit his mistake but upon video evidence he still maintained that he wasn't in the wrong but anyone with vision enough to legally drive a car could see he was wrong.

Mandrake
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Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:31

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Ray wrote:Schumacher was well clear of the yellow zone when he passed them. His move in La Source and on the exit was to avoid Algersuari and before they got to Eau Rouge the light was green. It appears they had the yellow lights on for that section and not going into Eau Rouge and up the straight. There are lights in zones and he didn't do any illegal overtaking.
I also think he was more caring for the flying bits of carbon fibre rather while being close with the HRT.

andartop
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Joined: 08 Jun 2008, 22:01
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Poleman wrote:Well its all media bullcrap,even the apology from Hamilton...He just wants to play nice(Stewards are already after him).Kobayashi on the other hand,what a liar!
So, basically you 're saying that they are both liars but Lewis is a "good" liar and Kamui a "bad" liar?! :wtf:
When video evidence is as clear as that and both drivers agree 100% whose fault the incident was, still trying to argue about it is a clear sign of denial.
Not to worry, it's a perfectly natural human reaction when dealing with grief.
Eventually all Lewis' fans will accept it, exactly as Lewis has.
Stewards are after him??? Is that why they called it a racing incident?
What would you say then if all those "reprimands" he's collected - should be more than any other driver in F1 history by now - were actual penalties?
Know what? Were the stewards "after" your idol he should have been penalised with a 5 or 10 place grid penalty for the next race for causing an - easily - avoidable accident, which necessitated the safety car to be deployed and may well have seriously affected a lot of other drivers' races at Spa.
Watching Lewis getting involved in so many incidents race after race after race is sad, but at least somewhat entertaining for the "blood thirsty" TV audiences, which is good for F1.
Watching fanboys defending him to death even after he has accepted responsibility is just sad.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Why does there have to be someone at fault for every incident?

Both drivers could have avoided it by giving the other a little more room, but neither did. It was a racing accident, move on.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Even more to the point, why do we have to argue with people we've probably never even met (other members of the forum) about something we can't change, and something that we will ultimately never agree upon?
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

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djos
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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richard_leeds wrote:Why does there have to be someone at fault for every incident?

Both drivers could have avoided it by giving the other a little more room, but neither did. It was a racing accident, move on.
So you expected Kamui to simply teleport of ithe track? He was already as far left as was possible, Lewis made one of his usual ego inspired mistakes by assuming Kamui would bow down to him and then bugger off someplace else which he didn't as he too is a racing driver and other racing drivers aren't paid to roll over and play dead whenever his holiness Lewis Hamilton drives up to them!

Lewis needs to sit down and watch the last few years of Alonso's greatest overtaking hits to learn how to overtake without driving into the other car!
"In downforce we trust"

marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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kamui had a destinctive advantage of actually seeing what was going to happen potentially when Hamilton already had to focus on his breaking point-it is really incredibly hard to judge the drop zone for the brakes towards lescombes and yo u see even the best not making the corner clean when they have to lok into the mirror before turning in.
Kamui knew Hamilton could not see him and he knew that you want to go a bit further out before turning in...All that was needed was a little lift...
But Kobayashi as spectacular his wheel to wheel driving is he seems to be occupied with his own affairs not really caring about the other guy.Webber in a ways has shown similar attitude in the last years but hey this sunday he raced very well.

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djos
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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If you change lanes into another car on the motorway because it was in your blind spot it's your fault period, this is no different.
"In downforce we trust"

Richard
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Well since you mentioned Alonso, he neatly tucked behind the other car when overtaken by an obviously faster car, more than once.

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strad
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Image
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To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Gerhard Berger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 11:17

Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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marcush. wrote:kamui had a destinctive advantage of actually seeing what was going to happen potentially when Hamilton already had to focus on his breaking point-it is really incredibly hard to judge the drop zone for the brakes towards lescombes and yo u see even the best not making the corner clean when they have to lok into the mirror before turning in.
Kamui knew Hamilton could not see him and he knew that you want to go a bit further out before turning in...All that was needed was a little lift...
But Kobayashi as spectacular his wheel to wheel driving is he seems to be occupied with his own affairs not really caring about the other guy.Webber in a ways has shown similar attitude in the last years but hey this sunday he raced very well.
So he's obliged to lift because he some how knew Hamilton was going to cut across him?

beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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Gerhard Berger wrote:So he's obliged to lift because he some how knew Hamilton was going to cut across him?
I don't think (I hope at least) that no one is asserting that he was obliged to... However, it would have been sensible to do so, he said this himself, that he ended up in a place he didn't really want to be. Hamilton cutting across – no he wasn't meant to predict that in any way, Hamilton took himself out there. That said, Kamui was in a pretty silly place.

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djos
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Re: Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

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beelsebob wrote:
Gerhard Berger wrote:So he's obliged to lift because he some how knew Hamilton was going to cut across him?
I don't think (I hope at least) that no one is asserting that he was obliged to... However, it would have been sensible to do so, he said this himself, that he ended up in a place he didn't really want to be. Hamilton cutting across – no he wasn't meant to predict that in any way, Hamilton took himself out there. That said, Kamui was in a pretty silly place.
Bob, he's a race car driver, Peter sauber doesn't pay him to roll over and play dead when Lewis, mark, Jensen, alonso or button steam up along side of him! [...]
Last edited by Steven on 13 Sep 2011, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
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"In downforce we trust"

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