Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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Post Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:08 pm

As to if Nico has him beat.. I don't know MSC is 2-1 up on him in qualifying and we haven't really seen him finish in a race unhampered by accidents to see where he stands.


MSC didn't beat Nico with speed in Aus and Malaysia. Nico just screwed up. There is a very strong possibility that the Merc was good for Pole in AUS and MAL. I actually think those were anomalies. Normal service will resume in Bahrain.
"You can't change what happened. But you can still change what will happen.
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PlatinumZealot
 
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Post Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:58 pm

n smikle wrote:
NonNewtonic wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCQZ0LQZ1zM&feature=relmfu[youtube]

A very good comparison indeed the only difference between the 2 drivers is that Rosberg is more aggressive in tackling the kerbs while Michael made a few mistakes that cost him a few tenths


Quite the contrary. This video only shows that Mike is not up to scratch in keeping his lines, and his throttle application.
Back in his ferrari days he was KING of steering input and throttle application. God hand and God foot all in one. now, it's obvious that Nico has him beat in those areas plus DRS usage.


The big surprise was the difference in the breaking point for turn 14, clearly showing how much more faith Rosberg had in his tyres holding on compared to Schumacher. 20m is incredible. Until that was shown, I would have doubted there is 20m difference between any of the drivers from Force India to the top of the grid. It was that and opening the DRS after (well, in) the final corner that gave him such a massive boost; remember he was only a tenth and a bit up on Schumacher after the second sector, no matter how good a sector that was as highlighted by Brawn.
Last edited by Richard on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed image quoted from previous post
Ral
 
Joined: 13 Mar 2012

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:16 am

Ferndal, why wouldn't McLaren consider RBR or Lotus a threat? The field is very close at the top and the McLaren's performance advantage isn't massive at all. They aren't going to dominate this season, therefore Lotus and RBR would be big threats.

I'm not convinced by the notion that Mercedes has a narrow operating window. The fact that they managed a two stopper in China and won by 20 seconds suggests that they have improved their tyre wear significantly. Lower track temperatures didn't stop McL and RBR from requiring three stop strategies given the higher levels of degradation that they suffered. So I don't understand why people are using Merc's strong performance in Shanghai as evidence that they are still suffering from tyre wear issues, or ignoring that it, in my opinion, indicates that they have sorted these issues out.

Of course, they are probably now going to chew their tyres in Bahrain after I have argued that they have fixed the issue.
Websta
 
Joined: 5 Feb 2012

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:49 pm

Websta wrote:The fact that they managed a two stopper in China and won by 20 seconds suggests that they have improved their tyre wear significantly.

yes but the point stands. Merc might have hit the center of the sweet spot. Brawn said in Autosport that the reason Merc could run quick AND long stints is that they got the tyres spot on. He was quite vocal after Malaysia too that they set the car up wrong in thr first two races, overheating them in Melbourne (with Sunday relatively warmer than Friday) and underheating them in Malaysia (with Sunday relatively colder than Friday).

The whole point of Ferndal's narrow window comment is that if they get the setup spot on, Merc is quick, and has no wear/deg issues. If they don't, they will hit tyre issues once again.
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raymondu999
 
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:33 pm

The result in China was also skewed by McLaren being stuck in traffic due to Button's poor pitstop. It'd have been a lot closer if Button had been in clear air, especially when you see how easily he and Hamilton passed 2-stop cars towards the end.
Last edited by Richard on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Moved from the Bahrain GP thread ..... ooops
Richard
 
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Location: UK

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:34 pm

Button was going to be within a second of Rosberg 2 laps from the end. Thats what Button said post race on SSF1.
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:31 pm

Websta wrote:Ferndal, why wouldn't McLaren consider RBR or Lotus a threat?


Sorry Websta let me rephrase : RBR and Lotus not AS big a threat (as a "spot on" Merc). Point is Mclaren does not have to play catch up again to RBR like last year. RBR came out storming being benchmark last year - everyone had to play catch up. (Lewis only won China cause he had an extra set of tyres.) And Vettel won the WDC because they carried the momentum. This year its the other way around.

Now, if Merc gets it right again in Bahrain... That means they can do it in the Hot and the not so Hot (China). And McL has to play catch up again.

And mark my words: If they do - we'll be in for a cracker! Bahrain will tell.....
ferndal
 
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:31 pm

Yes, Nico was the best in S1 and S2 in China. Which is strange for MGP car.
ivand911
 
Joined: 11 Mar 2012

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:24 pm

ivand911 wrote:Yes, Nico was the best in S1 and S2 in China. Which is strange for MGP car.


This makes sense for what everyone is alluding to. On tracks with longer straights, all cars will see higher top speeds and thus higher loading from the downforce at the end of the straights. So even though Mercedes may not have an advantage with the active DDRS during the race, they certainly will have an advantage with the passive front wing. They will be able to run more rake than others and more downforce. At tracks with shorter straights, the other teams will be able to run a lower ride hight which will cut the Mercedes relative advantage.

Have there been any murmurs about the hydraulic-link suspension? The car has excellent brake stability.
Honda!
dren
 
Joined: 3 Mar 2010

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:25 pm

raymondu999 wrote:
Websta wrote:The fact that they managed a two stopper in China and won by 20 seconds suggests that they have improved their tyre wear significantly.

yes but the point stands. Merc might have hit the center of the sweet spot. Brawn said in Autosport that the reason Merc could run quick AND long stints is that they got the tyres spot on. He was quite vocal after Malaysia too that they set the car up wrong in thr first two races, overheating them in Melbourne (with Sunday relatively warmer than Friday) and underheating them in Malaysia (with Sunday relatively colder than Friday).

The whole point of Ferndal's narrow window comment is that if they get the setup spot on, Merc is quick, and has no wear/deg issues. If they don't, they will hit tyre issues once again.


I think I mispoke slightly - my comments weren't directed specifically at Ferndal and the narrow performance gap comment. I thought that all the cars have very specific tyre performance requirements anyway (RB7 at the Nurburgring last year comes to mind) so I wouldn't expect it to be a problem that only affects Merc AMG.

What I don't understand is all the talk about Merc's fundamental tyre issues that I've read after the Chinese GP, my point being that if Merc had a fundamental problem then I don't think they could have found such strong performance. To still have been ahead of a 3 stopping Button whilst on a 2 stop strategy is testament to that. The fact that they couldn't find similar performance in Malaysia under similar low track temperature conditions suggests that they did, as you mentioned, just screw up their set-ups.

I am by no means an expert on tyre wear though - actually I know virtually nothing about it - so if there is significant non-linearity between the effects of surface temperature and lateral loading on tyre wear then perhaps they will have bad tyre degradation in Bahrain despite their good performance at the high lateral load/low track temp Chinese GP. I fear I may be rambling (I had a few drinks with dinner).

ferndal wrote:Now, if Merc gets it right again in Bahrain... That means they can do it in the Hot and the not so Hot (China). And McL has to play catch up again.

And mark my words: If they do - we'll be in for a cracker! Bahrain will tell.....


Absolutely! Fingers crossed
Websta
 
Joined: 5 Feb 2012

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:52 pm

I think the China result was massively skewed by the Mclaren strategy. If they had driven the same strategy as Nico they would easily have been with him, possibly even in front of him come the end of the race. They both lost massive amounts of time behind Raikkonen, Massa etc.
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SiLo
 
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:58 pm

Just remembered, but what happened to Vettel at the start? His start was really crap! It looked like he reacted to everyone around him and not the lights.
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SiLo
 
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Yeah, he admitted the start caught him napping, then the Williamses speared off right in front of him, causing him further pain
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:20 pm

I think he got off the line as quick as everyone else but he initiated his launch later then everyone else.

sounds weird but hopefully you understand what i mean.
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Nando
 
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Post Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:29 pm

He dipped the clutch late. It's kind of like, lights went out, then he went, "hang on, we're racing already?" then he dropped it.

Vettel said, not wrote:I missed out on the start, I wasn’t entirely happy finding the revs and I lost the initial bit when the lights went off. Usually I’m pretty quick with that, but today I was one of the last ones.
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