Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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Ral
Ral
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Joined: 13 Mar 2012, 23:34

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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raymondu999 wrote:Not to mention Hamilton probably had a hell of a victory shot without his penalty
Which flies in the face of the "random" argument, and partly against yours about the elite not being able to win because of the tyres. I'm with you, and in fact I don't think a lot of people would try to argue that Hamilton didn't have the best chance of anyone winning the race if he hadn't been penalised. But why was that?

Because Hamilton did the best job setting his car up to use the tyres on that track. Of anyone, by far with the exception perhaps of Maldonado. The Lotus cars had some issues with the temperatures and you could argue the Ferrari was running a bit better on Sunday than it had done in qualifying. But Hamilton was flying on Saturday and Sunday both, in both conditions on both tyre compounds.

So, Hamilton, in what so far has arguably looked like the best car in the field, did the best job setting it up and would probably have lapped the field, right up to and including his team mate had it not been for the penalty. Proving that it was him, Hamilton who did that job with his engineers, regardless of the tyres. Because his team-mate went nowhere in the same car with the same tyres. That elite enough for you? How about Alonso consistently out-performing his team mate every single time they've been on the track? How about Raikkonen's 14 point advantage over his team-mate in the championship standings, despite all his qualifying mishaps and mistakes?

The cream still comes to the top. They just have to work a bit harder for it, especially because there are more competitors now close enough to take advantage of any mistakes.

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kemalcan
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Joined: 31 May 2010, 17:27
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Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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Did anyone notice this or any news about Vergne starting on different compounds?

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image from reddit

Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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what the?
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i70q7m7ghw
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 00:27
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Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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That's illegal...

Just to add to the devalued GP victories discussion. When an underdog won a race, Vettel in Monza in a Torro Rosso, it was an indication of a true talent, something remarkable. Does anyone here believe Pastor Maldonado or Nico Rosberg are going to go on to dominate F1 for 2 seasons after showing they can win a race?

I've got no problem with a more level playing field, but in my opinion we don't have a level playing field, there seems to be some strange handicapping going on.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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Diesel wrote:That's illegal...

Just to add to the devalued GP victories discussion. When an underdog won a race, Vettel in Monza in a Torro Rosso, it was an indication of a true talent, something remarkable. Does anyone here believe Pastor Maldonado or Nico Rosberg are going to go on to dominate F1 for 2 seasons after showing they can win a race?

I've got no problem with a more level playing field, but in my opinion we don't have a level playing field, there seems to be some strange handicapping going on.
Aye - My whole discussion really is saying that the midfield cars that get their tyres right seem QUICKER than top teams that didn't get them right. Case in point - I don't believe for one bit that Maldonado as a driver is quicker than Alonso. But he was able to so easily stay ahead of a charging Alonso doing qualifying laps (causing his tyres to go off after something like 9 laps?) while managing tyres. It's abso-mega-lutely absurd.
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myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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Diesel wrote:That's illegal...
And people believe the FIA are effective when policing the rules... That car fails scrutineering pure and simple, and yet it wasn't even detected!?

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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raymondu999 wrote:
Diesel wrote:That's illegal...

Just to add to the devalued GP victories discussion. When an underdog won a race, Vettel in Monza in a Torro Rosso, it was an indication of a true talent, something remarkable. Does anyone here believe Pastor Maldonado or Nico Rosberg are going to go on to dominate F1 for 2 seasons after showing they can win a race?

I've got no problem with a more level playing field, but in my opinion we don't have a level playing field, there seems to be some strange handicapping going on.
Aye - My whole discussion really is saying that the midfield cars that get their tyres right seem QUICKER than top teams that didn't get them right. Case in point - I don't believe for one bit that Maldonado as a driver is quicker than Alonso. But he was able to so easily stay ahead of a charging Alonso doing qualifying laps (causing his tyres to go off after something like 9 laps?) while managing tyres. It's abso-mega-lutely absurd.
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ArchAngel
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Joined: 15 Feb 2010, 11:22

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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Perhaps someone could verify from a different feed whether Vergne's mixed-compound stunt actually happened during the race?

I know it's illegal as per current rules, but frankly i don't see why teams shouldn't be allowed to mix compounds any which way they see fit to achieve their target setup.

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Mr Alcatraz
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Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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Pierce89 wrote:so.. The championship leader(tied) only has the 7th fastest car, and Sauber is the best. I know things have been wild, but, in Charles Barkley's words: "Come on, man"
Word up bro 8)
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i70q7m7ghw
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Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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ArchAngel wrote:Perhaps someone could verify from a different feed whether Vergne's mixed-compound stunt actually happened during the race?

I know it's illegal as per current rules, but frankly i don't see why teams shouldn't be allowed to mix compounds any which way they see fit to achieve their target setup.
Says 'Lap 5/66' which to me is clear it's the race.

Mandrake
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Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:31

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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I guess Vergne had some contact at the start, rubbing off the paint from the rear tire.

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motobaleno
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Joined: 31 Mar 2011, 13:58

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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raymondu999 wrote:
Diesel wrote:
Aye - My whole discussion really is saying that the midfield cars that get their tyres right seem QUICKER than top teams that didn't get them right. Case in point - I don't believe for one bit that Maldonado as a driver is quicker than Alonso. But he was able to so easily stay ahead of a charging Alonso doing qualifying laps (causing his tyres to go off after something like 9 laps?) while managing tyres. It's abso-mega-lutely absurd.
Don't you really think that your picture is a little bit too static?
following strictly your logic it will be meaningless to do the races allover the year. After the presentation of the cars you do some tests in 2 or 3 tracks and that's all: you know which is the fastest car and you have your championship winner.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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I don't mind mixed results - but cars can seem to fluctuate over 6/7 wcc positions race by race in terms of speed.
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Intego
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Joined: 01 Apr 2010, 16:35

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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I didn't find a picture of the starting grid, but here's picture from right after the start where you can clearly see the yellow markings on Vergne's left rear. And the FIA race chart tells us thae he pitted in lap 11. So Mandrakes guessing seems to be right even though the contact must have happened between laps 1 and 5.

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MrBlacky
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Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 09:18

Re: Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

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