2012 British GP - Silverstone Circuit

[andartop]

Maldonado fined and reprimanded:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101094

[kiev the great]

Surely it should go down as a racing incident? Maldonaldo has done some stupid things, but in this incident you can see the rear step out slightly as he comes in and that moment puts him on a very wide line. Perez has already committed to the outside and as such Maldonaldo can go nowhere but into the side of him. No overzealous defending or dangerous driving. Momentary lose of control on a set of cold tyres.

[andartop]

Well, according to the stewards Maldonado was punished for causing a collision. It's not hard to see why this guy will never learn since the stewards appear to be giving different interpretations to the rules race by race.

Based on today's interpretation Perez had every right to be on the outside and keep his line. Going by that, Maldonado should have just kept the outside in Valencia during the first part of that incident and crashed with Lewis, in which case Lewis should have been punished for causing a collision!!!

[FrukostScones]

Maldonado fined and reprimanded:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101094

bizarre, now you get fined for racing incidents. edit: watched a better replay again, MAL just lost his rear, his fault but nothing to get fined for.

[GrizzleBoy]

As for the Maldonado-Perez incident, I can't see what was different to the Maldonado-Hamilton incident in Valencia. I thought we had agreed that the defending driver can hold on to the racing line and is not obliged to leave space on the outside at the exit of the corner? Wasn't that exactly what Hamilton did to Maldonado in Valencia? I'm not trying to ignite things here, I honestly don't understand the difference.

The difference is that:

A: There was TONNES of room for Perez to make his move. There was NONE for Maldonado in Valencia.

B: Lewis defended his position without trashing another car. Maldonados defense ended up with him running into another car (yet again).

You really dont see ANY differences there?

A. There was no room for Maldonado in Valencia because Lewis left no room for him by going wide on the exit and pushing him off the track. Mind you, the line Lewis took was not the racing line, as the next corner was a tight left. Watch Vettel's pole lap for example. To clarify, I'm talking about the first part of that incident, where Maldonado was pushed off the track, not when he rejoined onto Lewis.

B. Lewis did not trash Maldonado on that corner because Maldonado went off the track. Had Perez done the same today there would have been no crash.

From the regulations point of view, I don't see ANY difference at all. You either have to leave room for the overtaking car on the exit or you don't. If you don't, it should be Perez who should be punished today. If you do, Lewis should have also been questioned by the stewards in Valencia for running wide on the exit of the first corner and pushing Maldonado off the track!

It seems you really don't understand at all, especially in your calling for either Perez or Hamilton to be punished (which I guess goes well with your general inquisitiveness regarding the subject).

In Valencia, the attacker (Maldonad) caused the incident.

In Silverstone, the defender (Maldonado) caused the incident.

There was tonnes of space for Perez to finish his move and Perez left Maldonado tonnes of space to defend.

Maldonado went over aggressive, spun his rears and slammed into Perez.

Perez didn't cause the unavoidable incident, Maldonado did.

If Lewis lost control and bashed Maldonado off the road in Valencia, people would be all over him too.


The crucial difference is that Maldonado was attacking a space that wasn't there in Valencia. Perez was attacking a space that was definately there. Ironically, the only similarity is that Maldonado was the one who drove into another driver in both instances.

[stefan_]

Well, some well-placed money allowed Maldonado to race in Monaco after he almost killed a marshall, so...
The thing is that it appears like they are erasing his (very) dumb moves and racing style with money and that is not a very good message Formula 1 transmits.

[SeijaKessen]

So while everyone is bitching about Maldonado, his slower teammate once again runs a smarter race and finishes in the points.

Say what you want about Bruno Senna, but I like the way he drives his races. He had a few not so good races this season, but overall, I think the quality of his drives are being lost on a lot of people. If his qualifying times were better, I believe we would see him in the top 6 easily. He's very consistent, and doesn't take stupid risks like Maldonado does. Even though he spent the last portion of the race behind Hulkenberg, he just kept the pressure on, then when he finally made his move, Hulkenberg couldn't stop him, and managed to take himself right off the track in a wasted defensive effort. Actually one of the best overtakes for the Grand Prix because he exhibited a ton of patience that half the field doesn't seem to have.

[SeijaKessen]

Well, some well-placed money allowed Maldonado to race in Monaco after he almost killed a marshall, so...
The thing is that it appears like they are erasing his (very) dumb moves and racing style with money and that is not a very good message Formula 1 transmits.

$40 million US dollars and Hugo Chavez's backing gives you license to do whatever you want in F1 is the only message I've seen in the whole Maldonado saga that's been ongoing this season.

[andartop]

@ Grizzleboy

Sorry but it's you who seems not to understand what I'm talking about.

The rules clearly state that the defender needs to leave enough room for another car at the corner entry.

Following the Valencia incident, quite a few forum members suggested this does not apply to the corner exit.

In Valencia, the defender (Lewis) followed a wide line on the exit, and the attacker went off the track to avoid contact. That was 1 corner prior to the incident. I did clarify I am talking about the corner before the contact, but you seem to have missed this point.

In Silverstone the defender lost traction and went wide on the exit, the attacker kept his line and there was contact.

I am not talking about the rule regarding "avoidable collisions", as this may be interpreted at will anyway. I am talking about the rule regarding "leaving enough space".

Hope this helps.

[GrizzleBoy]

@ Grizzleboy

Sorry but it's you who seems not to understand what I'm talking about.

The rules clearly state that the defender needs to leave enough room for another car at the corner entry.

Following the Valencia incident, quite a few forum members suggested this does not apply to the corner exit.

In Valencia, the defender (Lewis) followed a wide line on the exit, and the attacker went off the track to avoid contact. That was 1 corner prior to the incident. I did clarify I am talking about the corner before the contact, but you seem to have missed this point.

In Silverstone the defender lost traction and went wide on the exit, the attacker kept his line and there was contact.

I am not talking about the rule regarding "avoidable collisions", as this may be interpreted at will anyway. I am talking about the rule regarding "leaving enough space".

Hope this helps.

Well it seems maybe you're not thinking about the actual corner entry then?

In Valencia, Lewis left space at the end of the braking zone and corner entry (otherwise Maldonado would have been in the wall, but DURING the corner, he closed the door.

In Silverstone, there was tonnes of room and it was an exponentially wider corner than the tight chicane of Valencia. Maldonado left room for Perez at corner entry and was in front, however DURING the corner Perez managed to be faster round the outside and emerged in an advantageous position approaching the exit of the turn.

In both cases, there was no crowding to the edge of the track during actual corner entry and the drama happened DURING the corner.

[FrukostScones]

Did Alonso lose the race on strategy? It appeared to me that, the Ferrari was too slow on the softer compound which is what lost them the race?

I love how they used Massa as guinea pig (by letting him start on softs!).

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/07/w ... e-victory/

If you have a reasonable explaination for the Ferrari strategy come forward.

[andartop]

@ Grizzleboy

Agreed. I just define as corner entry the whole part leading up to the apex. So in the first case the defender closed the door during the corner by choosing to run wide, in the second case the defender run wide accidentally. The only difference being the width of the corner. I don't think the rules differentiate between wide and narrow corners, do they? In both cases there was enough space for 2 cars to make it through side by side, as we saw with previous overtakes. So, what was the difference then?

[andartop]

If you have a reasonable explaination for the Ferrari strategy come forward.

Given the very limited dry running they had it does make sense to me to split the strategies between your two drivers hoping one will get it right!

[SeijaKessen]

Did Alonso lose the race on strategy? It appeared to me that, the Ferrari was too slow on the softer compound which is what lost them the race?

I love how they used Massa as guinea pig (by letting him start on softs!).

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/07/w ... e-victory/

If you have a reasonable explaination for the Ferrari strategy come forward.

Well I think they simply miscalculated in their expectation of Alonso building up a massive lead over Mark Webber after the first pit stop.

I chalk this up to the same mistake they made in Canada with Alonso's tires,on the expectation P2 wouldn't be able to make up the gap in time before the checkered flag. When Lewis made that 2nd pit after 7 laps on the softs, I thought Ferrari was in trouble, I was just hoping somehow Alonso would hold on till the end even though realistically it was never going to happen.

[GrizzleBoy]

@ Grizzleboy

Agreed. I just define as corner entry the whole part leading up to the apex. So in the first case the defender closed the door during the corner by choosing to run wide, in the second case the defender run wide accidentally. The only difference being the width of the corner. I don't think the rules differentiate between wide and narrow corners, do they? In both cases there was enough space for 2 cars to make it through side by side, as we saw with previous overtakes. So, what was the difference then?

Well, Valencia saw Maldonado trying to squeeze into a gap that wasn't there as Lewis was closing the door. Grosjean was able to pull the move on Lewis because he was actually in front of Hamiltons front wing in the crucial part of the turn where Lewis could have shut the door. Meaning Lewis would have had to drive through Grosjeans car to shut the door.

Today, Perez wasn't ahead at the first part of the turn, but he managed to be quick enough to pull ahead and not enable Maldonado to close the door through the course of the turn (as Grosjean did vs Hamilton in Valencia). Just in this instance, that Maldonado was so aggressive he lost control and wrecked Perez's as well as his own race.

Maldonado was lucky to get off with a time penalty in Valencia while Kobayashi and Vergne got grid penalties.

Going into the very next race and again causing an incident that again ruins a persons race isn't so easy to "put aside". Especially when he has already had malicious race ending collisions with said driver just a few races ago.