2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[SiLo]

Hmm...
let me try...

Higher efficiency + reliability = power for longer = faster lap times?

Pretty much. May also be bringing in improvements that only offer better reliability at the moment, because they know they are ahead of the game, so that next year they can push for performance using tokens if they need to.

[mrluke]

According to Italian press Mercedes is using all 7 tokens at Monza, while Ferrari is using 3.

It's here too: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... italian-gp Will they be 2 s quicker in Q ?

"The changes are limited to the main works team for now, although it is possible that customers Williams, Lotus and Force India may have access to the developments later in the campaign."

Now imagine Williams or McLaren (had they stayed with Merc) challenging Mercedes for titles. That's why all the big teams including Red Bull (until they got inferior one) loved those changes. How was it, all engines are identical and homologated, what's the point in running different specification engines? I guess there is a point. Now Ferrari is supposedly trying to sell RB their engines but this time A spec. So Sauber gets B spec.

I think its part of the engine deal that each team has negotiated.

If you pay top dollar you get every update as soon as it is available. If you buy the value package you get 4 PUs in launch spec at the start of the season with lots of room to negotiate a package somewhere inbetween.

[tranquility2k4]

There's something a tad suspicious about Mercedes press releases regarding their new 7 token engine upgrade. To suggest they would spend 7 tokens that brought very little in terms of performance, that is their whole in-season allocation, would be surprising to say the least.

I remember before the season started that not so much Mercedes, but more so the likes of Williams (via Pat) said Merc had a very promising mid-season upgrade. It is also surprising that they haven't given it to their customers - why wouldn't they want Williams to be in-front of Ferrari?

My feeling is that they have some innovative technology and their engine could be a mega upgrade but they want to keep it a secret and by giving it to their customers, it may be harder to do so. They already have the best engine and if their upgrade turned it into even more of a monster then it would give Red Bull, Bernie, etc, more ammunition to go for whole-sale changes to equal things up. They don't want to be 2 - 3 seconds ahead, just 0.5 - 1 second will do..

[drunkf1fan]

According to Italian press Mercedes is using all 7 tokens at Monza, while Ferrari is using 3.

It's here too: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... italian-gp Will they be 2 s quicker in Q ?

"The changes are limited to the main works team for now, although it is possible that customers Williams, Lotus and Force India may have access to the developments later in the campaign."

Now imagine Williams or McLaren (had they stayed with Merc) challenging Mercedes for titles. That's why all the big teams including Red Bull (until they got inferior one) loved those changes. How was it, all engines are identical and homologated, what's the point in running different specification engines? I guess there is a point. Now Ferrari is supposedly trying to sell RB their engines but this time A spec. So Sauber gets B spec.

For all we know it's because of a engine compatibility issue where the customers need further time to adjust the shape of the chassis to fit new parts. Maybe those teams don't have the money to make those changes and chose not to have the newer engine. Maybe it's as simple as they haven't tested the engine and while they will basically guarantee the old/current engine will continue to be able to do 5-6 races the new one may not when they mess around with the first race trying to find the best settings/mappings/etc.

Merc are actually more likely to be able to cope with taking an engine penalty than the other teams. They'll likely clinch both titles with a race or two to go and thus taking an extra engine wouldn't hurt them as much. If say Williams dnf because of the engines it could mean dropping a spot in the constructors title which costs them money.

[kalinka]

There's something a tad suspicious about Mercedes press releases regarding their new 7 token engine upgrade. To suggest they would spend 7 tokens that brought very little in terms of performance, that is their whole in-season allocation, would be surprising to say the least.

Yes, and also considering that reliability upgrades are token-free, they probably couldn't sell those upgrades as reliability upgrades to FIA...so those tokens must have some effect on performance. Also why would you spend all yours tokens to a reliability upgrade, when you had no problem all season with that?

[dans79]

Yes, and also considering that reliability upgrades are token-free, they probably couldn't sell those upgrades as reliability upgrades to FIA...so those tokens must have some effect on performance. Also why would you spend all yours tokens to a reliability upgrade, when you had no problem all season with that?

My guess would be that the reliability upgrade, is something that lets them run more laps in their maximum output mode. And, or something that makes the engine more efficient, and as a side effect more powerful.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

They already have the best engine and if their upgrade turned it into even more of a monster then it would give Red Bull, Bernie, etc, more ammunition to go for whole-sale changes to equal things up. They don't want to be 2 - 3 seconds ahead, just 0.5 - 1 second will do..

And keep telling the world how they are afraid of Ferrari !

[f1316]

I suspect it kind of is what they're saying it is: they've significantly changed the architecture of the engine in order that their off season token usage is more effective. Remember that there are some aspects of the PU that are completely frozen at the end of this year; if you think you'll ever want to change them, now's the time.

Something in what Hamilton said made me wonder if it's all aimed at upping the amount of revs used (big leap on my part, I admit) and that that's the way they'll reach the magic 1000 bhp number for 2017. My understanding is that they'll likely get a bigger fuel flow for that but that the token system will stay the same, so if there's something in the engine that wouldn't stand higher revs, makes sense to address that now.

[Just_a_fan]

Mercedes currently 2 seconds a lap clear of the field!

[WaikeCU]

Mercedes currently 2 seconds a lap clear of the field!

That's scary, but still early to say.

[ChrisF1]

Which means nothing.

[Sevach]

Mercedes well clear of their costumers on the speed traps (and anyone else).

[iotar__]

Which means nothing.

I agree, they are probably running at 80% it will be 2,5 s in Q2 or 3 .

[ChrisF1]

I dream that one day we'll see a Formula 1 car lap break Montoya's 1:19.525

4.5 seconds off that last year in Qualifying.

[f1316]

I dream that one day we'll see a Formula 1 car lap break Montoya's 1:19.525

4.5 seconds off that last year in Qualifying.

You've gotta think they'll shave at least two seconds off p1 time, so 1:22.5 is the highest I'd expect for pole.

Then take into account that they're trying to make the cars 5-6 secs faster per lap and I think your dreams will come true in just a couple of years