2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Martin_F
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?

GoranF1
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Not Kvyat fault....

https://vid.me/iWFg
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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The determination is strong with this one.

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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giantfan10 wrote:
GoranF1 wrote:Thats right...Vettel left the gap,went wide,made a mistake and should of braked...100% his fault.
Vettel said he did brake... secondly the line that Kvyat took was always going to have him end up way over to the left of the track a country mile away from the apex ,the true apex to that corner is in turn 2. Vettel was actually in the best position to make that apex and carry the best speed to turn 3.Go back and look at the normal line to that corner during the race and you will see that hugging the curbs into turn one ALWAYS ends up with understeer and a compromised turn 3. whats done is done and off to Russia.. hope we can finally have a normal start and race lol

https://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/ ... =519&h=383
Vettel however collided with Raikkonen before Kvyat understeering away from the kerb. If kvyat understeered into Vettel, it would have been Kvyat's fault. That's not what happened however.
#AeroFrodo

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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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turbof1 wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:
GoranF1 wrote:Thats right...Vettel left the gap,went wide,made a mistake and should of braked...100% his fault.
Vettel said he did brake... secondly the line that Kvyat took was always going to have him end up way over to the left of the track a country mile away from the apex ,the true apex to that corner is in turn 2. Vettel was actually in the best position to make that apex and carry the best speed to turn 3.Go back and look at the normal line to that corner during the race and you will see that hugging the curbs into turn one ALWAYS ends up with understeer and a compromised turn 3. whats done is done and off to Russia.. hope we can finally have a normal start and race lol

https://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/ ... =519&h=383
Vettel however collided with Raikkonen before Kvyat understeering away from the kerb. If kvyat understeered into Vettel, it would have been Kvyat's fault. That's not what happened however.
And about raikkonen's swerving back onto inside line after running wide which was the actual reason for the collision?

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Nuvolari
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
I would say it matters that one was done in the braking zone in to a corner, the other in the middle of a long corner and not in the braking zone. Also, one resulted in the driver not being control while the other, the driver was fully in control of his car all through the corner. I didn't see anything wrong with Kvyat's move, however Vettel was unfortunate that Raikkonen was also turning right to squeeze him unaware of the Red Bull there.

GoranF1
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Juzh wrote:The determination is strong with this one.
If i wanted to show determination i would pull out some videos showing Vettels over-agression on lap 1s, but i dont feel like it now.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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Chuckjr
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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I'm a Ferrari fan and really respect VET and his four world titles, but Turbo is correct on this one.

KVY held his tight line and Vettle assumed KVY would drift and so VET turned into RAI. This is understandable but not necessary. Welcome to racing.

Ultimately I think it's a racing incident with no driver guilty. KVY was right to try and attempt the gap because according to the voice of reason, Senna, you are no longer a racing driver if you do not try to take a gap when there is one.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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ChrisDanger wrote:
carisi2k wrote:
FoxHound wrote:
And you can prove this?
The Torro Rosso's are faster then the Renault and Honda powered cars is also how you can prove it. If the Honda and Renault were superior then how come both Torro Rosso's are still several KM/H faster then all 6 of those cars.
If you read Carroll Smith's Tune to Win one of the first thingss you'll learn is that if you want to go faster (top speed) you can either try and get more power from your engine, or you can make your vehicle more aerodynamically efficient. The problem is that you need a lot more power to go just a little bit faster, so it's really not even worth trying. Much better to work on aero. So top speed is much more a measure of drag than power. Evidence of this is that the Merc's hardly ever top the speed traps, while I've seen backmarkers high on the lists. And as a nod to aerodynamic efficiency, Red Bull, with Newey's input, are scoring podiums with an engine Renault themselves can't even score points with.
The Mercs might not top the speed traps but they are rarely far away from the top of the speed traps. They are normally only about 1km/h down on the Williams or Force India. Perez was fastest at 334.5 and Nico was 333.6.

Red Bull ran less wing at China to keep up with the Mercs and Ferrari's in a straight line and yet were still slower by about 3km/h on the Torro Rosso's. Daniel Ricciardo's vmax was 329.5km.h with his skinny wing and Vestappen was 331.4. Kyvat was only 327km/h.

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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.

Edax
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Just_a_fan wrote:
siskue2005 wrote:
Vasconia wrote:What sort of damage? I thought the front wing had been changed...
http://cdn-7.motorsport.com/static/img/ ... detail.jpg
The turning vane has been damaged. The top of the splitter has also been damaged. Indeed, it looks like the smooth cover has been ripped off totally. I bet the batwing suffered too. I'm amazed he had enough aero left to get to 7th!
Hamilton mentioned that beside aero damage he also suspected some suspension damage. Which comes as no surprise after that whack.

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dans79
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.

Watch Alonso here in the on-board. He kisses the first apex, drifts out, and then back in to kiss the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWssZV_tZHU

Now watch Kyvat, he's carying so much extra speed he is a car width+ off the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsBsM7PhRQ

If Vettel and Kimi had kept their lines, Kyvat would have side swiped Vettel.
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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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dans79 wrote:
carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.

Watch Alonso here in the on-board. He kisses the first apex, drifts out, and then back in to kiss the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWssZV_tZHU

Now watch Kyvat, he's carying so much extra speed he is a car width+ off the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsBsM7PhRQ

If Vettel and Kimi had kept their lines, Kyvat would have side swiped Vettel.
What you need to realize is that it doesn't matter that Kyvat put his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn. There was a gap and the RB12 could exploit the gap. He never ran wide or hit anybody and Sebastian did. Sebastian was suprised that Kyvat was there but that isn't Kyvat's fault. It was good racing by Kyvat taking advantage of the Ferrari's running wide into the first corner.

hemichromis
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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dans79 wrote:
carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.

Watch Alonso here in the on-board. He kisses the first apex, drifts out, and then back in to kiss the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWssZV_tZHU

Now watch Kyvat, he's carying so much extra speed he is a car width+ off the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsBsM7PhRQ

If Vettel and Kimi had kept their lines, Kyvat would have side swiped Vettel.

Why not look at what Kvyat ACTUALLY did rather than how a driver would normally go around a corner?
https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... urn_1.html

Watch how Kvyat maintains the tight line until Raikonnen hits him there is no drifting out at all!

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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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hemichromis wrote:
dans79 wrote:
carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.

Watch Alonso here in the on-board. He kisses the first apex, drifts out, and then back in to kiss the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWssZV_tZHU

Now watch Kyvat, he's carying so much extra speed he is a car width+ off the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsBsM7PhRQ

If Vettel and Kimi had kept their lines, Kyvat would have side swiped Vettel.

Why not look at what Kvyat ACTUALLY did rather than how a driver would normally go around a corner?
https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... urn_1.html

Watch how Kvyat maintains the tight line until Raikonnen hits him there is no drifting out at all!
I just watched this video and there are several things noticeable to my eyes.

1. Both Red Bulls are able to run a tighter line then all the other cars including the Mercedes.
2. When Seb and Kimi collide, Kyvat is already ahead of both of them.
3. It wasn't just a little gap that Kyvat went into but a huge chasm.
4. The Ferrari's made all the mistakes. They went wide at the first corner and then tried to cover the huge hole they created by changing their lines and moving in which would make them culpable of creating an avoidable incident and not Kyvat.

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