2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Martin_F
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Joined: 11 Mar 2016, 22:54

Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Nuvolari wrote:
Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
I would say it matters that one was done in the braking zone in to a corner, the other in the middle of a long corner and not in the braking zone. Also, one resulted in the driver not being control while the other, the driver was fully in control of his car all through the corner. I didn't see anything wrong with Kvyat's move, however Vettel was unfortunate that Raikkonen was also turning right to squeeze him unaware of the Red Bull there.
All I'm saying is: If Hamilton wouldn't have close into the corner, It would have been the same move as Kvyat's (minus the Raikkonen incident).


carisi2k wrote:
Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
Agree to disagree.
Last edited by Martin_F on 19 Apr 2016, 02:27, edited 1 time in total.

rayden
rayden
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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wow, that onboard from kvyat changes everything for me. That move was on, and nice awareness from him to go for it.


I actually think kimi might be most at fault here.

max_speed
max_speed
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Joined: 29 Oct 2012, 04:33

Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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rayden wrote:wow, that onboard from kvyat changes everything for me. That move was on, and nice awareness from him to go for it.


I actually think kimi might be most at fault here.
whatever is the case..i did not like vettel rebuking kvyat for that. space was there and he had speed and went for it. from my perspective kimi overshoot then tried coming back but by that time vettel was there , a bit far from chicane and kvyat slotted himself in . "kvyat" is not in blame picture at all.
Last edited by turbof1 on 19 Apr 2016, 14:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed the silly, speculative part to pre-emptively avoid bickering.

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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Martin_F wrote:
Nuvolari wrote:
Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
I would say it matters that one was done in the braking zone in to a corner, the other in the middle of a long corner and not in the braking zone. Also, one resulted in the driver not being control while the other, the driver was fully in control of his car all through the corner. I didn't see anything wrong with Kvyat's move, however Vettel was unfortunate that Raikkonen was also turning right to squeeze him unaware of the Red Bull there.
All I'm saying is: If Hamilton wouldn't have close into the corner, It would have been the same move as Kvyat's (minus the Raikkonen incident).


carisi2k wrote:
Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
Agree to disagree.
I've not got anything against Bottas and I like him much more then I like Hamilton but Hamilton didn't close a gap. He was turning into the corner right behind Nico. Valteri was too deep and lost his braking and went straight into Hamilton.

As an extra. Bahrain is not comparable to China. Bahrain is a hard right turn. China is a slow bend.

diego.liv
diego.liv
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013, 17:37

Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Let's not forget English isn't the native language of all of us, and it does seem to be the case for max_speed.. Not impossible to understand the meaning of max_speed's post, especially if you are a native English speaker

1.HAM had quite a damage, was quoted having lots of work to do to keep the car in a straight line, hence easier pass on MAS for both RIC and RAI

2.KVY was on VET pace, but the German had front wing damage, on the worst side since the front left tyre is the most tested in China

max_speed
max_speed
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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dans79 wrote:
max_speed wrote: whatever is the case..i did not like vettel rebuking kvyat for that. space was there and he had speed and went for it. from my perspective kimi overshoot then tried coming back but by that time vettel was there , a bit far from chicane and kvyat slotted himself in . "kvyat" is not in blame picture at all. vettel was embarrassed and in presence of ferrari boss , he just wanted to blame someone..and here comes kvyat back in picture. Vettel is now feeling pressure of leading the team. out qualified in quali and then race mistake shows it. Ferrari comes with pressure lot of pressure..and marchione is not an easy man to deal with. blaming alonso for not motivating team when is out (every ferrari fan can do.. i am also ferrari fan) but he lead the ferrari well even though it was a dog not horse.
lets see if vettel bounces back or no but it was racing accident , dragged a bit to not look amateur in front of president ...
What on earth have you been smoking, to come up with this bit of absurdity?
http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5617 ... t_Ferrari/

here is someone with brain and better english , who is in sync with my thought process.

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djos
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Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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diego.liv wrote:Let's not forget English isn't the native language of all of us, and it does seem to be the case for max_speed.. Not impossible to understand the meaning of max_speed's post, especially if you are a native English speaker
Last time I checked paragraphs were'nt unique to the english language.

PS, I have to agree that the contact is actually Seb's fault, he overreacted to Danill's move.
"In downforce we trust"

evered7
evered7
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Seb qualified ahead of Kimi in both Aus and Bahrain. He got one run in China and screwed it up. His fault. But where is the issue of feeling the heat coming from?

Ferrari haven't been able to run the engine in full power and got two failed engines in two races. If anyone was at pressure in Ferrari, it would be the PU dept until they fix these issues.

The season is long. If they can manage not to screw up any more races and fix the engine issues, Ferrari should be able to challenge the Mercs soon.

It is the first time since 2010 that they got a competitive car for two successive seasons. That is some achievement for Ferrari.

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Vasconia
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Location: Basque Country

Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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max_speed wrote: here is someone with brain and better english , who is in sync with my thought process.
Having a better doesnt change the idea. What happened this weekend it was a silly mistake, nothing more. Vettel is doing a good job this season so far, the pressure is for all the team, because they think they have a car wich can wins, which is something yet to be proved.

Gothrek
Gothrek
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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GoranF1 wrote:
Juzh wrote:The determination is strong with this one.
If i wanted to show determination i would pull out some videos showing Vettels over-agression on lap 1s, but i dont feel like it now.
Yes very useful... Maybe you don't realize it but the world isn't black or white. Looking at all the different angles the blame is bit distributed over all three drivers (so a racing incident). I would give Kvyat 50% of the blame, Raikkonen 30%, Vettel 20%.
However, if Vettel wouldn't have gone left (you can see it on the video you have posted with DiResta) All 3 would have been out the race and it would have been 100% Kvyats fault. This is not speculation, but a fact. Also this is what Vettel was angry about, and from my point of view it is all natural behaviour to do so. I would do the same. But I can also understand Kvyat explanation (well, not the self absorbed nonsense we are both on the podium, what is the problem?) - It is just racing.

Verdict: Racing incident, but could have been much worse if Vettel didn't steered left.

santos
santos
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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For me it's just a race incident. And the biggest fault is from Raikkonen. Rosberg forces him to lock the wheels and gone wide, Vettel (i belive) had to lift the pedal and stands between Rai and a fast Kvyat. Raikkonen is the one that tried to comeback to the inside of the corner. Vettel didn't had a chance to avoid contact.

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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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2016 chinese gp had the most overtakes in history:

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... _the_most/

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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A-Bap wrote:But with Nico it's a "lucky win," and "things went just his way today." The guy never seems to get proper credit for his victories, and I think he's earned it.
I'm not going to get into the post-race celebrations. I'm not a fan of them, just as I was quite disgusted by them in Monaco last year after a win that was blatantly undeserved. Each to his own.

I do respect Nico though, but certainly not for his win yesterday, nor the win in Bahrain. I respect him for being pretty damn impressively quick and very consistent. I also respect him for 2 masterful race starts in Melbourne and Bahrain, possibly 3 if you include China, which was good enough.

Deserved or not, IMO, I always rate a driver given the performance of himself and his team-mate. For the same reason, I highly rate Alonso as one of the best, and by the same token, have had my doubts over Vettel considering his 4 WDC titles have been won with a very good car and a team-mate who had a lot of troubles and issues. 2014 with Ricciardo as his team-mate did not help either. On the other hand, Vettel has impressed me since with Ferrari, although, again here too, I don't regard Kimi as being A.) on top of his game B.) a particularly strong team-mate. I may be wrong on both accounts.

Now, Rosberg is a very strong driver. He has to be, considering his performance against Hamilton. But again, the last 3 wins were not of any substance IMO. He didn't do anything spectacular and (again IMO) lucked into them somewhat. He beat Lewis two times at the start, which was great, but I don't rate a driver alone on his starts. In 3 races so far, Hamilton ended up with a damaged car after the first lap and this has tainted a clear comparison between the two. He did not have a fight yet. 3 races in so far, and Nico simply got what was a logical conclusion to circumstance. In other words, Nico was driving a one-man-race so far. No real competition, much less pressure. Now if he had won with Hamilton right behind his tale for most of the race, it'd be a different story and I would attribute more excitement over his wins.

Anyway, the season has just started, but IMO that 36 point lead he already has is mighty. Assuming no technical gremlins, Lewis would have to have 6 straight wins to regain the WDC lead. That will take us to pretty much half-way-point of the season. If he suffers another glitch, a DNF, that would set him back another 4 wins. Assuming Mercedes do their car justice and both usually either finished 1st or 2nd. Judging the pace of that Mercedes, I have no reason to believe Ferrari is close enough to snatch 2nd from them in any race, if not for circumstance. So Lewis will have a very hard time to catch Nico. Also, I think Nico is strong enough to prevent Lewis capturing 6 race wins in a row. If we assume a more balanced act, or even 2/3rds of the wins going to Lewis, it'll take 9 races.

The problem this season, as last, and the one before, is that that Mercedes is too good, the gap to the 2nd best team big enough, so that every Mercedes driver is either winning, or 2nd, or much further down the grid. This means that the pressure is a lot higher to get the wins. Everytime you don't, it's a potential 7 point deficit at least. A DNF costs 25 points. That's a lot of points to be giving away. If the grid would be more competitive, the "wins" would be less substantial.

So yes, I highly rate Rosberg and I very much look forward to the first race we will see them both in undamaged cars in an uncompromised race battling each other. Then we will have a truer picture to their relative performance against one another.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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@Phil

Yes, I have similar thoughts on that. It's the best Lewis could have done in China with a damaged car like that. He still managed to do some nice overtaking though. What we haven't really seen this season is how Rosberg moves through the pack when he's fallen behind. I could see him having a handful at that.

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Nuvolari
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Re: 2016 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, Apr 15 - 17

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Phil wrote:
<snip>The problem this season, as last, and the one before, is that that Mercedes is too good, the gap to the 2nd best team big enough, so that every Mercedes driver is either winning, or 2nd, or much further down the grid. This means that the pressure is a lot higher to get the wins. Everytime you don't, it's a potential 7 point deficit at least. A DNF costs 25 points. That's a lot of points to be giving away. If the grid would be more competitive, the "wins" would be less substantial.

So yes, I highly rate Rosberg and I very much look forward to the first race we will see them both in undamaged cars in an uncompromised race battling each other. Then we will have a truer picture to their relative performance against one another.
I think the problem with your point is, that the field is competitive this year. You only have to look at where Hamilton finished with the damaged car. If this was 2014/2015, you can bet your bottom dollar that he would've been knocking on a podium finish, for sure. It's just that in this race, the other main competitors that could have raced with Rosberg for the win, promptly took themselves out of contention at the first corner. Hopefully, the next race provides a clean first corner so we can actually see a race among the front running teams.