ThumbsUp wrote:Vasconia: you can't use the M-word in this thread!
I can't believe people think RBR gifted the race win to Max over Daniel. Pirelli said the 3 stop strategy was the fastest. Why would Ferrari give Kimi the better strategy? Or is Vettel the 2nd driver now? Don't think so.
Max did a great job by not making any mistakes, he looked after his tires better then the others and he was focusd all race through. And by overtaking Vettel at turn 3 he actually won the race.
Ups! I hope the moderators wont punish me severely! I can say in my defense that I have not used the blasphemic words R and H.
That stratey was better theoretically not in reality because you need to overtake, and this a hard task in Barcelona.
ThumbsUp wrote:Vasconia: you can't use the M-word in this thread!
I can't believe people think RBR gifted the race win to Max over Daniel. Pirelli said the 3 stop strategy was the fastest. Why would Ferrari give Kimi the better strategy? Or is Vettel the 2nd driver now? Don't think so.
Max did a great job by not making any mistakes, he looked after his tires better then the others and he was focusd all race through. And by overtaking Vettel at turn 3 he actually won the race.
Ups! I hope the moderators wont punish me severely! I can say in my defense that I have not used the blasphemic words R and H.
That stratey was better theoretically not in reality because you need to overtake, and this a hard task in Barcelona.
You are in for a spanking after that! Max Mosley style of course, to keep it related to F1.
Vasconia wrote:Who knows, I know it wasnt easy but I can expect Vettel trying harder than Kimi, for sure.
Well he did not make a single attempt in the second stint....so...you go for 3-Stop as you proved you can not overtake on track. Pretty much the same for Ric...he showed that he is slower on the prime than Ves who managed his tires perfectly....so he goes for 3-Stop.
Perhaps my brain is playing with me, but I don remember Vettel being so closed for some many laps as Kimi was. Vettel is more agressive and I am quite sure that he could have tried to overtake Max. But its only my theory so it doesnt matter...
Well, Vet was following Ves the whole second stint (~10laps) with ~1sec gap and 3 laps tire advantage. Not a single attempt to close this gap and overtake. I can not read anything else into this, but that there was no way for him to overtake....aggressive or not.
hollus wrote:... If Ricciardo's move on Vettel had worked, he'd probably gone on to catch the leaders and, with his tire advantage, pass Raikkonen thanks to dirty air and then pass Max with DRS.
....
When was the move on Vettel? From the time data I can see that Ric catched Vet with 11 laps to go , a gap of 6.6sec to Rai and a pace advantage of 0.6sec to Rai and Ves. Just do the math...even without Vet being there Ric would not have catched Rai. He was simply too slow on his 3-stop, even without the need for overtaking.
PlatinumZealot wrote:Can someone please start the Monaco GP thread. Practice is on thursday remember.
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Maybe we need two threads. One again without the Mercs word and one about the questions if the Mercs will survive the first corner or not
Ok I allowed a bit of joking around but let's not get carried away. If someone really feels the need to discuss that incident, it can be done in the Merc team thread. Just be warned if it goes even slightly sideway there too, we'll prohibit discussing it there as well.
basti313 wrote:I would not compare it to Abu Dhabi. Ric was simply too slow on the Medium. To fight Ferrari the only chance was to get him out of the way as the Ferraris could not overtake Ves in free air. Both RedBulls on 2-Stop would have ended up in Vet catching Ves because of dirty air of Ric and Ric because he was slow.
Or they could have done the same they did repeatedly in Vettel era, slow down the second car so the leader earns some seconds margin, et voilá, you´ve secured the victory.
They did prefer a different strategy wich implied huge risks, as both Ferraris could have undercut both RBR. Luckily for them Ferrari is known by their poor strategy department, wich ruins races a lot more often than provide any success.
ThumbsUp wrote:Pirelli said the 3 stop strategy was the fastest
Usually there´s two strategies very similar, with the one with more pit-stops being the fastest. But also teams usually choose a strategy with one less pit-stop, as the fastest (more pit-stops) strategy force you to overtake on track, wich ruins any theoretical advantage.
3 stop strategy is faster only if you race alone in clean air the whole race, but in real world the strategy with less pit-stops is usually faster, specially on tracks like Montmelo where overtaking is very difficult
I was wondering if Daniel made his, "Unlike 99% of drivers, I have a go," comment on the basis of Raikkonen not attempting an overtake on Verstappen? Or was it aimed at Vettel? Both?
I think Raikkonen is getting a bit of unfair criticism here. He was never in a position to attempt a legitimate passing manoeuvre, and imagine how popular he would have been if he'd taken both himself and Verstappen out? He does have a tendency to be overly fair / cautious though; I don't think anyone on this forum could name another current driver that makes a higher percentage of passes around the outside.
iotar__ wrote:Magnussen - Palmer, from F1fanatic,
- as you can see unlike the [censored] it's a clear penalty and not a racing incident where both contributed and both continued, tyres and grip/speed difference means nothing, looks like anyone who gets close to Palmer gets a penalty, he is Whiting's new Button
Thank you for the link. I believe the Stewards stated that the penalty was for Kobayashi-ing the corner. As this isn't being played out on an Xbox, having to use another car as a brake to help you get around a corner is frowned upon. Even with using Palmer's sidepod to help slow himself down, Magnussen still ended up needing 50% more road to make the turn. Seems like a rare textbook example of a penalty.
Has anyone tracked down what caused Alonso's loss of power?
I don't think Raikkonen deserves any critisim for his race. He drove fantastic. It was especially interesting knowing Ferrari demanded a win this weekend. How close did they get!
Verstappen was 'in the zone', and it would have been a hell of a task to overtake him. I wonder even if DannyRic - hell, perhaps one of the drivers of the cars that went out in the first lap would have been able to pass despite having an aero and engine output benefit.
The cars create a wake, and that disturbes the air and creates heat. We've seen it a lot when drivers get behind a Williams. They're definately faster, but have a notoriously hard time to pass them, if they even manage to.
Raikkonen was a very long time very close to Verstappen. We must not forget that all this time so close behind that car has it's effects on the car - heating, tire wear, etc.
Raikkonen tried a couple of times, but never really got close enough to make it. Verstappen also managed several times to 'manage' the gap by staying in front just enough to make sure Kimi was out of DRS range. But even in DRS range, he didn't make it, despite the insane top speed difference.
After a couple of tries Kimi simply decided to leave it be, and rightly so. They got a great result being 2nd and 3rd, all in one piece, and the world saw they could battle the RB's.
What if Kimi actually attacked? There could be the possibility he would take Max and himself out - something Ferrari and the entire world would not have appreciated. I think if that happened, his Ferrari contract prospects could actually drop. After all, from 2nd to 0 points would not be a light thing to accomplish.
Secondly, what if he actually passed? Could he keep verstappen behind? Verstappen would be in DRS range, AND the RB clearly had better traction. Verstappen also notoriously is quite
cheeky to make a pass, so Kimi would get the risk of having a win-hungry 18-year old 1weekend at a new team that could potentially either take him out, OR simply pass him at a few corners afterwards since the RB simply has better traction AND he d have DRS benefit.
So IF kimi managed to pass him, you can betcha that at the end of the lap, at the pit/finish straight, VES would position himself nice and close behind the Ferrari and then DRS himself alongside him and then make the pass and the end of the straight and have Kimi the need to do it all over again.
Kimi is a former World Champion, so he knows how to drive and is definately capable. Him deciding 'ill settle for 2nd' was a wise call especially since they have less radio tactic input nowadays. The last thing he would want is his overtake attempts would cause Ricciardo to make a pass or have Vettel overtake him.
I'm still curious on how RIC got that flat though?
he has had quite the bad luck with flats this year!
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Thank you. At least it's likely that they won't need to replace any parts. Slow progress from Honda, but definitely progress. I'm interested to see how they do in Monaco as, with the increased reliability compared to last year and with some decent aero, a double points finish may not be too unlikely.
giantfan10 wrote:The Ferrari lost traction in the beginning of turn 3 allowing verstappen and sainz to get by.....thats all that happened .seems as if max sneezes then he has the best sneeze ever....
you can see the Ferrari losing traction in the video posted. there was nothing special or fantastic about it.
seems fashionable now to overhype everything about Verstappen.
as far as the race he did nothing special. red bull handed him the win when they tried a 3 stopper with Ricciardo that didnt work. its common knowledge that passing is next to impossible when you have 2 cars that are competitive in barcelona Maldonado one of the worst drivers in F1 won the Spanish GP with arguably the most complete driver in F1 unable to pass.
Max does get kudos from me for keeping his head down and not making any mistakes in his win with a faster car on his tail.
did he deserve the win?? yes... was it some oustanding drive worthy of all this overblown hype? nope
It's funny, because if you mention the win by Vettel in the "Toro Rosso" (Designed by Newey and probably quicker than the RB), everyone goes ballistic. As soon as anyone hypes Verstappen, who's rise to F1 is probably the quickest ever, it's "overblown". A purposeful attempt at "going against the grain" for a lot of people here at the moment for no apparent reason other than to "look good" (to whom I'm not sure).
Fans should be celebrating refreshing drivers that are here on talent and not just $35m of oil money...
i didnt overhype vettel at the time and i'm not overhyping max either.....
Max inherited first place due to Red bull going for 3 stops with Ricciardo....then he held on till the end of the race ...thats it i dont really see what there is to hype up looking at the facts in front of me.
i celebrate Max's talent yes... but the Hype over winning that race is overblown and uncalled for.
I hope the moderators wont punish me severely! I can say in my defense that I have not used the blasphemic words R and H.
