2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
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komninosm
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Joined: 05 Apr 2009, 18:41
Location: Macedonia

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Shrieker wrote:You mean, it's not already, like a month or so ? I'm surprised.
There were a few cooling rains in May, but overall I guess people still went swimming on the good days.
Personally I don't like the cold water and prefer to take my vacations on July and August when the heatwave is hard to bear. 8)

George-Jung
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Joined: 29 Apr 2014, 15:39

Re: RE: Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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GrayGreat wrote:
ringo wrote:
iotar__ wrote:Cars don't drive themselves. Do you think Bahrain '14 was the evidence that Williams was quicker there, China Q that Red Bull was quicker, Spain start that TR was quicker and Monaco that Force India is a better car? Raikkonen was lucky he only lost to two slower cars, does it tell you that Williams and RB were quicker? Strategies are only good with drivers that can make them work. Having said that, even if the logic is that Merc is quicker on harder tyres (how much is debatable) and that's why using VSC to create some (measurable) advantage was needed - in hindsight it looked like defending the lead on the same strategy could have been easier, not certain.

- Hamilton's excuses:"Sebastian and Nico got quite a good run down to Turn One and then the tyres were cold, big understeer," The same kind of understeer happened in USA and Suzuka. He did it on purpose and lies now. Where is good cop - bad cop Merc gentlemen duo? Planning TOs, counting car sales with Zetsche or writing letters to fanatics?- Wonderful world of F1 if they don't talk about it doesn't exist. Where are pushing 100% fans?
You know this is rich coming from you. You are the same guy supporting Rosberg's blatantly nasty move at barcelona that wiped out both cars, and now you are here playing the saint when Rosberg put his nose in closing gap in the middle of a corner he would have never made even if Lewis wasn't there.
This was mild compared to Nico's nasty moves. In fact this wasn't even a move by Lewis, Lewis just drove the racing line and Nico was dumb enough to shove himself in a dead end.
m
Lewis was dumb enough to do it in 2014. What's so special about Nico doing it?

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Nico knowing what happend in 2014???

flickerf1
7
Joined: 29 Feb 2016, 00:52

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Analysis: How Ferrari fumbled under Hamilton's pressure: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analy ... re-782000/

Interesting read.
The Wicked + The Divine.

Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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https://twitter.com/ScuderiaFerrari/sta ... 7242160128 Damn Seagulls...


On things being discussed as far as last page... i'm a guy who thinks Hamilton was dirty in Suzuka last year and i think Rosberg was stupid yesterday.

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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ian_s wrote:i've not been able to find any decent quality onboards that i can take a picture from, but i dont see how hamilton could have given rosberg much more space at the start.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg6 ... apture.png
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg6 ... pture2.png

if anything, rosberg tried to turn in even though hamilton was on the racing line. this then caused hamilton to take a different line towards turn 2 which pushed rosberg off the track.
i think mercedes got very lucky there, very lucky that Rosberg didnt cause another DNF for both cars.

I think there should be penalties for stuff like that. The driver on the inside should not be allowed to knock the outside driver off the track and get away with it. On the one hand we says we need to leave space but then when I driver knocks another driver off the track, they say " it wasn't avoidable" Sure it was if he went in slower. It already hard enough to pass without allowing the inside car knock the outside car off the track,

Nathanael F1
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015, 21:54

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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I could be totally wrong, but wasn't Rosberg already alongside Hamilton? Shouldn't Hamilton have left a car's width?
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg

Moose
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 19:41

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Nathanael F1 wrote:I could be totally wrong, but wasn't Rosberg already alongside Hamilton? Shouldn't Hamilton have left a car's width?
That rule applies on the entry to the corner, not the exit. The stewards have in general regarded it as completely fair game to push a driver wide on the exit of a corner, even though it doesn't strictly match the letter of the rules.

dev'o
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Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 05:56

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Moose wrote:
Nathanael F1 wrote:I could be totally wrong, but wasn't Rosberg already alongside Hamilton? Shouldn't Hamilton have left a car's width?
That rule applies on the entry to the corner, not the exit. The stewards have in general regarded it as completely fair game to push a driver wide on the exit of a corner, even though it doesn't strictly match the letter of the rules.
Surely though the stewards could have came out since and clarified though!

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Phil
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Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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diffuser wrote: I think there should be penalties for stuff like that. The driver on the inside should not be allowed to knock the outside driver off the track and get away with it.
Have you ever, in your life, attempted to go into a corner at the maximum possible speed, and then:

- attempted to turn in harder and change the line to a tighter one mid corner?

- do you know what understeer is and why and how it is caused?

- have you ever tried using your brakes in such a situation when you are already at the limit of grip due to the cornering forces and the speed? Care to take a guess what will happen?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Fulcrum
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 18:05

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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So where is the Baku thread?

krisfx
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Joined: 04 Jan 2012, 23:07

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Phil wrote:
diffuser wrote: I think there should be penalties for stuff like that. The driver on the inside should not be allowed to knock the outside driver off the track and get away with it.
Have you ever, in your life, attempted to go into a corner at the maximum possible speed, and then:

- attempted to turn in harder and change the line to a tighter one mid corner?

- do you know what understeer is and why and how it is caused?

- have you ever tried using your brakes in such a situation when you are already at the limit of grip due to the cornering forces and the speed? Care to take a guess what will happen?
Don't even attempt to argue with the stupidity. I had this on Twitter and it basically melted my brain.

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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A-Bap wrote:
Nico was (just) ahead, and Lewis was in his blind spot: racing incident. It was refreshing to hear Nico's candor about his race. No whining, no "can't follow in these cars," or "can't pass here." What really gag's me is the media's double standard when it comes to Lewis and Nico's aggressiveness. Nico get's all this tisk-tisk-tisk while Lewis is lauded.
This is what annoys me, I am not a Nico fan but it seems that all the bad things are maximized when the good things are simply underestimated.

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Shrieker wrote:
komninosm wrote:
Steven wrote:Here's Vettel crashing into Hamilton's post-race Sky interview, funnily blaming seagulls for a turn1 lockup
https://streamable.com/q5xd

Hamilton also noted his pre-race plan was to do a 2-stopper, but they changed to a single stop strategy.
here in Greece it's so hot, swimming time.
You mean, it's not already, like a month or so ? I'm surprised.
Fortunately I live in northern Spain(22 degrees) but in the south 33/35 degrees is what its expected for today. Nothing uncommon to be June.

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Schuttelberg
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 12:02

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Jolle wrote:
Phil wrote:
Schuttelberg wrote:I know they were racing for position in Hungary, just like they were in Monaco. Rosberg had a chance to win at Hungary in 2014 if Hamilton let him by, but he didn't and he was justified to do so. I understand Mercedes perspective at Monaco this year, I'm just saying that if Rosberg wants to win the WDC, he needs to be ruthless. Saying, 'I'm not letting Lewis past, if he can pass me, well and good,' would have been the right thing to do for his championship chances.
Sorry, I didn't want to come across condescending or as aggressive.

Two points:
Hungary was different, not because Nico had a shot at the win, but because on lap 55 of the Hungarian GP, they could have put either driver on that different strategy. They chose to leave the leading driver (Hamilton) out and pit the other on fresh tires (Rosberg). This is what gave Rosberg the opportunity to win. My point was that given they were both racing each other, they could have simply pitted both drivers and both would have had the chance to fight for the win. It made no sense to put Rosberg on a different, potentially better, strategy and then have Hamilton move aside for it. That is what happened and so before that lap 55 when Rosberg was close to Hamilton and they wanted him to wave past Rosberg, Hamilton second guessed that order, saying that he wouldn't slow down. Watching the race, Rosberg wasn't in a position to attempt a pass himself.

Was it wrong to disobey team-orders? Yes. No driver is bigger than the team. Was it (morally) right to ask Hamilton to let Rosberg by? IMO no, given they could have put either drivers on that strategy and avoided the whole topic together.

2nd point - Monaco - Nico had an issue. It perhaps wasn't of technical nature, but one of confidence. Even so, when one driver is struggling as much as Nico did, there's no way as a team you want him holding up your other driver. To do so would be self destructing for both and the team. As I just posted in the Mercedes team-topic, I actually think Rosberg was relieved once he got the order to let Hamilton by. I think part of the reason of his lack of confidence was how aggressive Hamilton was behaving in Nico's rear. He didn't want to put his car in the wall and risk a DNF at his home race, but he didn't have the confidence under those conditions with the state of his tires.

I actually think Monaco was quite fair. The team gave the order to speed up. Then when failing to do so, they eventually gave the order to let him past. At that point, the situation isn't much different than if you are handicapped by a car issue and that is preventing you from performing at your best. Why destroy the race for the rest of the 600+ employees who worked hard to get both cars on the grid? Fair play if they are both going at it with everything working normal, but when facing issues like Rosberg did in Monaco?
Plus, don't know if you watched the Hungarian race, Rosberg never was close enough for Hamilton to let him pass. He was already asking for Lewis to move aside from 100m distance. Hamiltonian respond then was: "he needs to get closer to pass me" and he didn't.
Ahh! No need to apologize mate, I've debated with you enough to know you didn't mean to be aggressive.

Without going into great detail, I understand where you're coming from and I totally get the 600+ employees working for Mercedes etc.

My only point is that if you want to be a World Driver's Champion, sometimes you must be a rebel, a ruthless selfish individual to prosper and while Rosberg was a complete gentleman in letting Hamilton go and doing the right thing for those 600+ employees, he's handed the momentum back to Hamilton and that's the most dangerous thing to do. Personally, the points gap is never going to be a fuss considering how dominant the Mercedes is and how enormous Lewis' talent is. The fuss is going to be the mindset, the confidence and the morale and I'm convinced that after the qualifying in Monaco, Lewis was very very downbeat. His frustration had begun showing and that's the time to drive him further into the ground.

As for a new Mercedes-Benz contract? I think Nico is a wealthy man, plus I have no doubt that if he were let go by them, Rosberg would be very very attractive to the likes of Ferrari and Renault (both works teams). Also, judging from your posts, you seem to be a veteran who's followed the sport for donkey's years and after three years of being beaten by Lewis, a fourth in progress, a fresh challenge might be just what Rosberg needs! The biggest draw for me to believe he should have said 'no' was the fact that I believe (like most people) that when the Monaco race began, this was probably the year Rosberg could be WDC. I frankly don't see him doing it any more, at least not at Mercedes.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Schuttelberg
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 12:02

Re: 2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

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Vasconia wrote:
A-Bap wrote:
Nico was (just) ahead, and Lewis was in his blind spot: racing incident. It was refreshing to hear Nico's candor about his race. No whining, no "can't follow in these cars," or "can't pass here." What really gag's me is the media's double standard when it comes to Lewis and Nico's aggressiveness. Nico get's all this tisk-tisk-tisk while Lewis is lauded.
This is what annoys me, I am not a Nico fan but it seems that all the bad things are maximized when the good things are simply underestimated.
Well, I sort of disagree. Let's get one thing straight, all racing drivers are going to make mistakes, no matter how good they are. Can Rosberg have a duel with the best, wheel to wheel without doing something clumsy consistently? I'm also of the belief that he cracks! Can Lewis do it? He will have an off day few and far in between but he's one of the best in that situation and frankly, his natural talent on the brakes in any car of any generation will always be mega. Everyone can't be that good! Hell I'm a Vettel fanboy and I don't think he's at Lewis' level. But, Vettel can dance with him without cracking, I don't think Rosberg can, consistently!

Secondly, Hamilton is the most popular driver going around and because he has time for the rif-raf of the media and general public, he will always be a darling while Rosberg is a private chap, like Vettel and people are generally more neutral towards it. It's just the way it is, but it's got nothing to do with track side operations.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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