2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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bauc
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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ripper wrote:Alonso pit stop and small collision with a Force India wasn't an unsafe release? When it is considered unsafe?
Unsafe release is when the team releases the car from the pit box while cutting the path of another car who is forced to brake or slow down from the pit lane in order to avoid crash.

So releasing car side by side is never a unsafe release and on some tracks drivers can drive alongside all of the way, while on other tracks one of the drivers will need to back off in order to make the pit exit.

Its a bit gray area like most F1 stuff but its the best way I can explain it
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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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A little bit late to comment the race but lets go:

-Awesome race by Alonso, McLaren is improving but I think he did a great job keeping the Williams behind.
-Lewis did a good job but he has very lucky with the Verstapen-Ferrari incident and the red flag. 6-7th would have been his natural position.
-Rosberg did what he had to do.
-The Verstappen-Ferrari incidents:
A) Start of the race: I blame both Vettel and Verstappen. The first one because he was cutting the corner where there no space. The second because he was trying to overtake where it was not posible.
B) Kimi/Vettel vs Max: Those defensive moves before they brake are extremely dangerous, he should receive a penalty.
- FI did a great job, I am happy to see Nico doing a great job.
-Awesome start by Sainz, sadly the puncture ruined his race but the car was a sh*t on this race.

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carisi2k
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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LionKing wrote:
carisi2k wrote:I don't disagree with you on Max but Seb didn't leave any room on the inside for Kimi and he hit Kimi before Kimi made contact with Max. Seb went straight for the apex like it was a qualifying lap when he should have stayed wide, given room to Kimi and he would have came out in front of them.
Vettel did leave enough space but Kimi could not turn in beause of Max inside
https://s21.postimg.org/bdd2b17k7/Belgium_II.jpg
If you think that is enough room then your crazy. Seb needed to be several car widths wider then that.

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henry
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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ripper wrote:Alonso pit stop and small collision with a Force India wasn't an unsafe release? When it is considered unsafe?
I would suggest that an interpretation would be that a release is unsafe if it endangers others in the pit lane.

Running side by side in the pit lane is relatively low risk, no worse than for you or I standing at the side of a dual carriageway. After the pit lane they are on the race track, as defined by the white lines. If Aalonso had forced Hulkenburg over the pit exit line, or Hulkenburg had crossed it to get a drop on Alonso a penalty would be deserved. It would have been unsafe if alonso, immediately after release, had tried to pull into the fast lane precipitating an avoiding action by Hulkenburg.

In my opinion no offence committed.
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djos
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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dans79 wrote:
djos wrote: Every driver knows they need to watch what the other cars are doing before turning in, this is racing 101. Kimi clearly was watching Max as he adjusted his line, but Seb didn't and he caused the crash as a result.
So the drivers are all supposed to be omniscient now?

Not only are they supposed to be aware of the car ahead, left, right, and behind, they now need to know about the guy 2 lanes over and 5 yards back?

Are they supposed to know where all 22 drivers are at all times?
Don't be silly, Seb just needed to watch the driver next to him more carefully, that was Kimi. If Kimi could do the same with max, then Seb could do the same with Kimi.
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Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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LionKing wrote:
carisi2k wrote:I don't disagree with you on Max but Seb didn't leave any room on the inside for Kimi and he hit Kimi before Kimi made contact with Max. Seb went straight for the apex like it was a qualifying lap when he should have stayed wide, given room to Kimi and he would have came out in front of them.
Vettel did leave enough space but Kimi could not turn in beause of Max inside
https://s21.postimg.org/bdd2b17k7/Belgium_II.jpg
you should take that replay to understand you are as wrong as it gets, you dont even see that vettel steers in such fashion that his rear wheel is actually already less then an inch away from the front wheel of kimi? the only one to blame here is Seb, clear as day not a single doubt about it. Seb ruined his own, ruined Kimi's and ruined Max' race. All three had a shot at P2 or perhaps even P1 with some luck. all that went out of the window because vettel took the corner as if there was nobody there.
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cooken
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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"Honestly, what the f*** are we doing here!?" :oops:

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Manoah2u wrote:
LionKing wrote:
carisi2k wrote:I don't disagree with you on Max but Seb didn't leave any room on the inside for Kimi and he hit Kimi before Kimi made contact with Max. Seb went straight for the apex like it was a qualifying lap when he should have stayed wide, given room to Kimi and he would have came out in front of them.
Vettel did leave enough space but Kimi could not turn in beause of Max inside
https://s21.postimg.org/bdd2b17k7/Belgium_II.jpg
you should take that replay to understand you are as wrong as it gets, you dont even see that vettel steers in such fashion that his rear wheel is actually already less then an inch away from the front wheel of kimi? the only one to blame here is Seb, clear as day not a single doubt about it. Seb ruined his own, ruined Kimi's and ruined Max' race. All three had a shot at P2 or perhaps even P1 with some luck. all that went out of the window because vettel took the corner as if there was nobody there.
100% totally agree. If Seb wasn't there, Max and Kimi would have got through turn 1, at worse bumped wheels. It's lucky Max was there otherwise it woukd be a disaster for Ferrari, taking each other out.
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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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NathanOlder wrote:It's lucky Max was there otherwise it woukd be a disaster for Ferrari, taking each other out.
erhm?? how exactly? If max is not there, then there's an extra car width of space for both ferraris to take?

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Juzh wrote:
NathanOlder wrote:It's lucky Max was there otherwise it woukd be a disaster for Ferrari, taking each other out.
erhm?? how exactly? If max is not there, then there's an extra car width of space for both ferraris to take?
Well, it's of course going into what-if scenario's, but if Verstappen was not there, then how far would Vettel have pushed Raikkonen? It's an extra car width as you said towards the wall. The question, and I want to emphasize it is only a question: would Seb have pushed it too far and put Raikkonen into the wall?

Let's also not forget what Vettel actually did: he turned into his team mate and significantly damaged his and Kimi's race, with Ferrari being in a desparate battle with Red Bull for second place in the WCC. If this was another Mercedes clash, than it would be the talking point for weeks to come, with the whole F1 community putting pressure on it. I feel there is a number one rule and that is to never ever hit your team mate (but that number one rule has been stepped on a lot of times). Vettel could have taken more care.
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sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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Vasconia wrote:A little bit late to comment the race but lets go:

-Awesome race by Alonso, McLaren is improving but I think he did a great job keeping the Williams behind.
-Lewis did a good job but he has very lucky with the Verstapen-Ferrari incident and the red flag. 6-7th would have been his natural position.
-Rosberg did what he had to do.
-The Verstappen-Ferrari incidents:
A) Start of the race: I blame both Vettel and Verstappen. The first one because he was cutting the corner where there no space. The second because he was trying to overtake where it was not posible.
B) Kimi/Vettel vs Max: Those defensive moves before they brake are extremely dangerous, he should receive a penalty.
- FI did a great job, I am happy to see Nico doing a great job.
-Awesome start by Sainz, sadly the puncture ruined his race but the car was a sh*t on this race.
+1

sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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sosic2121 wrote:
Vasconia wrote:A little bit late to comment the race but lets go:

-Awesome race by Alonso, McLaren is improving but I think he did a great job keeping the Williams behind.
-Lewis did a good job but he has very lucky with the Verstapen-Ferrari incident and the red flag. 6-7th would have been his natural position.
-Rosberg did what he had to do.
-The Verstappen-Ferrari incidents:
A) Start of the race: I blame both Vettel and Verstappen. The first one because he was cutting the corner where there no space. The second because he was trying to overtake where it was not posible.
B) Kimi/Vettel/PEREZ vs Max: Those defensive moves before they brake are extremely dangerous, he should receive a penalty.
- FI did a great job, I am happy to see Nico doing a great job.
-Awesome start by Sainz, sadly the puncture ruined his race but the car was a sh*t on this race.
+1

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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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turbof1 wrote: Well, it's of course going into what-if scenario's, but if Verstappen was not there, then how far would Vettel have pushed Raikkonen?
Seems to be he was quite committed to the tight line he took and Ves not being there probably would not have made a difference to vettel's trajectory, but it would to raikkonen's. Whether it would be enough or not to avoid collision we'll never know.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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dans79 wrote:
NathanOlder wrote:I'm still waiting to see some onboard footage from either Lewis or Fernando at the start. Can't seem to find anything anywhere!a
https://youtu.be/PuAwa9SqcI4

I haven't seen any on board footage either but you can see in the video that Lewis is in front of Alonso at the start. However he takes turn one very slowly and wide, while Alonso Dives for the Apex.

Basically it's the difference between a guy fighting for the championship and one with nothing to lose.
That's correct. Lewis said he was avoiding the aftermath of the Kimi VET incident. He took one side Alonso took the other, but Alonso ended up better off.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
dans79 wrote:
NathanOlder wrote:I'm still waiting to see some onboard footage from either Lewis or Fernando at the start. Can't seem to find anything anywhere!a
https://youtu.be/PuAwa9SqcI4

I haven't seen any on board footage either but you can see in the video that Lewis is in front of Alonso at the start. However he takes turn one very slowly and wide, while Alonso Dives for the Apex.

Basically it's the difference between a guy fighting for the championship and one with nothing to lose.
That's correct. Lewis said he was avoiding the aftermath of the Kimi VET incident. He took one side Alonso took the other, but Alonso ended up better off.
And a guy who is famous making awesome starts.

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