2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

[NathanOlder]

Look at Sebs line. If Kimi took the inside line (like Rosberg) they still make contact. So like you said, seb was trying to push kimi onto the kerb. Big mistake, cost the tifosi big points. Maybe he will learn soon.
If Seb was alongside Rosberg they would have made contact if Seb was on the line he took. Showing he didnt leave enough room

If there was no max, kimi would be on the kerb, and there would be plenty of space. Seb almost made it as it is.
I wonder if they passed the corner 3 wide what would happen on the corner exit...

Just google Belgium GP start for 2015, where Vettel dives to the inside of a Williams on the curb of La Source while there is another car alongside.

https://youtu.be/pdzYxZdmlAo

And the line the williams took was because he knew he had to leave space. Sebs line this year was more like the slow in fast out "squaring the corner off" which would have helped in an attack on vettel, this doesnt work so well when you have a car or cars inside you. As we all saw in brilliant HD last weekend

[TwanV]

Interesting perspective from Sergio Perez: (googletranslated from dutch gpupdate.net)

After the Grand Prix of Belgium was Max Verstappen found lots of criticism, several drivers and analysts that the Dutchman had gone too far in its attempts to keep behind other cars. Sergio Pérez doens't share this criticism. he dueled fiercely with Verstappen in Spa, but is not complaining.

Perez tried to pass outside Verstappen Spa in Les Combes, but got no room and shot straight. The same happened to some other drivers. Nothing wrong, says Perez. "Whether Max too aggressive in his duel with me? Nope. It was just a racing incident. Yes, he could have given more space. Massa for example didthough, he gave me enough room to make the turn. Max does not, because he himself quite late braked in an attempt to defend his position. But I was happy that the stewards took no action. They judged it a racing action and that was it, "he said Thursday in Monza.

Also about the incident between Verstappen and Kimi Raikkonen on the Kemmel Straight, where the Dutchman slammed the door, the Mexican was mild. "He tried to defend his position. I think actually that both drivers were very late with the move," he refers to the fact that Raikkonen ducked just in a hole when he drove right behind Verstappen. "They relied a little too much on each other. So I see it, anyway."

However, Perez is with some of his fellow drivers agree that Verstappen addresses the border. "Max is top quality, but sometimes too aggressive. Sometimes he changes direction in the braking zone, he should not do. But I myself have never had any problems with him, he has never gone too far. My battles with him are always been fair. From your line differ in the braking zone is indeed something we'll see more often in young drivers. "

It is striking that many experienced Formula 1 drivers have criticized the way in which Verstappen defends his position, but the race committee still seems to find everything just fine. Clarity on what is and is not there does not seem to be. "I hope at least that there is consistency," Perez says about it. "Recently, Nico Rosberg was penalized, but in Spa similar incidents went unpunished. There will always be some discussion about such things, but it is important to be consistent. I personally think it's good for the sport, which is not sanctioned anything. it is nice that they let us race, but:. it must remain fair the only thing I'm really against it, as I said earlier, your line differ in the braking zone that does not belong "

[Vasconia]

Perez sums it up perfectly well with this sentence "Max is top quality, but sometimes too aggressive. Sometimes he changes direction in the braking zone, he should not do. ".

100% agree.

[Andres125sx]

Look at Sebs line. If Kimi took the inside line (like Rosberg) they still make contact. So like you said, seb was trying to push kimi onto the kerb. Big mistake, cost the tifosi big points. Maybe he will learn soon.
If Seb was alongside Rosberg they would have made contact if Seb was on the line he took. Showing he didnt leave enough room

leaving some space and leaving the ideal line are different things. Rosberg takes the ideal line because he´s alone, while Seb is not alone so his line is wider, but obviously he does not let Kimi to go for the ideal line, that´s the reason if Kimi took Rosberg´s line they still make contact, Seb let him a free line, but not the ideal one but a tighter line over the kerb. Perfect behaviour if Max was not there, but he was.

The fact remains, you said Vettel took the ideal line when he didn´t, he took a wider line trying to leave Kimi enough space. But Max was there, Kimi couldn´t go for the line Seb was thinking he´d go, and there was a contact.

As I said, IMO only Kimi is faultless, Seb didn´t see Max and went too tight (considering there was three cars instead of two like he was thinking), and Max was divebombing on first corner probably because he was using SS tires. All his rivals around were using S, so he was probably asked to be aggressive on first corner to pass Rosberg and make a gap if possible because if he´s stuck behind a car with S tires his race would be compromised

But considering it was a first corner incident, to me this was only a racing incident

[Edax]

leaving some space and leaving the ideal line are different things. Rosberg takes the ideal line because he´s alone, while Seb is not alone so his line is wider, but obviously he does not let Kimi to go for the ideal line, that´s the reason if Kimi took Rosberg´s line they still make contact, Seb let him a free line, but not the ideal one but a tighter line over the kerb. Perfect behaviour if Max was not there, but he was.

The fact remains, you said Vettel took the ideal line when he didn´t, he took a wider line trying to leave Kimi enough space. But Max was there, Kimi couldn´t go for the line Seb was thinking he´d go, and there was a contact.

As I said, IMO only Kimi is faultless, Seb didn´t see Max and went too tight (considering there was three cars instead of two like he was thinking), and Max was divebombing on first corner probably because he was using SS tires. All his rivals around were using S, so he was probably asked to be aggressive on first corner to pass Rosberg and make a gap if possible because if he´s stuck behind a car with S tires his race would be compromised

But considering it was a first corner incident, to me this was only a racing incident

I essentially agree. However I think you are omitting one player who in IMHO may not entirely be guilt free.

The whole sequence was set in motion by Rosberg. Looking back at the footage I just realised how early Rosberg braked, thereby slowing down Raikkonen. Vettel and Verstappen are not braking that late (or divebombing) it is mainly Raikkonen being slow.

Look for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT3TWr1-AT4

Without that both Vettel and Verstappen would never been close enough to try a pass, in the corner. But Raikkonen lost so much speed due to Rosberg that they suddenly could have a go. I guess the opportunity to pass was for both an unexpected and split second descision which unfortunately went wrong.

The only thing I am wondering is is Rosberg trying to slow down the field to make sure he wouldn't be followed on Kemmel? He usually brakes pretty late in the first corner.

[Jolle]

leaving some space and leaving the ideal line are different things. Rosberg takes the ideal line because he´s alone, while Seb is not alone so his line is wider, but obviously he does not let Kimi to go for the ideal line, that´s the reason if Kimi took Rosberg´s line they still make contact, Seb let him a free line, but not the ideal one but a tighter line over the kerb. Perfect behaviour if Max was not there, but he was.

The fact remains, you said Vettel took the ideal line when he didn´t, he took a wider line trying to leave Kimi enough space. But Max was there, Kimi couldn´t go for the line Seb was thinking he´d go, and there was a contact.

As I said, IMO only Kimi is faultless, Seb didn´t see Max and went too tight (considering there was three cars instead of two like he was thinking), and Max was divebombing on first corner probably because he was using SS tires. All his rivals around were using S, so he was probably asked to be aggressive on first corner to pass Rosberg and make a gap if possible because if he´s stuck behind a car with S tires his race would be compromised

But considering it was a first corner incident, to me this was only a racing incident

I essentially agree. However I think you are omitting one player who in IMHO may not entirely be guilt free.

The whole sequence was set in motion by Rosberg. Looking back at the footage I just realised how early Rosberg braked, thereby slowing down Raikkonen. Vettel and Verstappen are not braking that late (or divebombing) it is mainly Raikkonen being slow.

Look for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT3TWr1-AT4

Without that both Vettel and Verstappen would never been close enough to try a pass, in the corner. But Raikkonen lost so much speed due to Rosberg that they suddenly could have a go. I guess the opportunity to pass was for both an unexpected and split second descision which unfortunately went wrong.

The only thing I am wondering is is Rosberg trying to slow down the field to make sure he wouldn't be followed on Kemmel? He usually brakes pretty late in the first corner.

On this vid you can clearly see that vettel was on the other side of the track, even behind raikkonen and just cuts across like he's all alone on track. Verstappen on the other hand isn't actually "dive bombing" but goes for a gap at least two car widths wide just before the braking point. Raikkonen just gives him enough room (like he should) but then Vettel just dives across. If Vettel just took a wide line, like many before him did during starts at Spa, there would be no trouble at all.

[lebesset]

Look at Sebs line. If Kimi took the inside line (like Rosberg) they still make contact. So like you said, seb was trying to push kimi onto the kerb. Big mistake, cost the tifosi big points. Maybe he will learn soon.
If Seb was alongside Rosberg they would have made contact if Seb was on the line he took. Showing he didnt leave enough room

If there was no max, kimi would be on the kerb, and there would be plenty of space. Seb almost made it as it is.
I wonder if they passed the corner 3 wide what would happen on the corner exit...

He didnt "almost make it" the cars came together with a big difference in line/angle.
Kimi couldn't take the kerb as he had a car inside him, vettel couldnt take his line because (just like kimi) he had a car inside him, but Seb did jack about it and turned in regardless. He screwed up and drove into his team mate. And thats a fact.

which is why seb admitted it was his fault

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, but people still point and say it was ok if max wasnt there. But he was. And I even think if Max wasnt, Seb would have hit Kimi. Sebs line was too tight for a car on his inside., Let alone 2. Look at the force india's the car on the outside left way more room for his team mate. Yet Andres125sx is insisting im wrong. Nevermind move on. Monza tomorrow

[flickerf1]

https://vimeo.com/180971139

[dans79]

https://vimeo.com/180971139

Watch Lewis overtake Alonso. Alonso moves around on the strait to mess with Lewis, but then stops as Lewis gets closer. Take Not Max, you have a lot to learn!

[GPR-A duplicate2]

https://vimeo.com/180971139

Watch Lewis overtake Alonso. Alonso moves around on the strait to mess with Lewis, but then stops as Lewis gets closer. Take Not Max, you have a lot to learn!

Alonso: Verstappen did nothing wrong at Spa

[dans79]

https://vimeo.com/180971139

Watch Lewis overtake Alonso. Alonso moves around on the strait to mess with Lewis, but then stops as Lewis gets closer. Take Not Max, you have a lot to learn!

Alonso: Verstappen did nothing wrong at Spa

read between the lines.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125971

Alonso danced around the question like a world class politician.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Watch Lewis overtake Alonso. Alonso moves around on the strait to mess with Lewis, but then stops as Lewis gets closer. Take Not Max, you have a lot to learn!

Alonso: Verstappen did nothing wrong at Spa

read between the lines.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125971

Alonso danced around the question like a world class politician.

It depends upon how you want to read it. I couldn't find anything political about his statements there. Alonso tells things as it is, even when he says the Formula 1 today has become a joke. So, to me, there isn't anything in between the lines.

[iotar__]

http://en.f1i.com/news/69461-hamilton-a ... appen.html Alonso and Hamilton defend 'exceptional' Verstappen
This is another reason why F1 is completely rotten. Drivers like that that can ignore any rules when it suits them. Can you even imagine those two behind Verstappen jr making illegal and danegerous moves, crashing into him, breaking their stupid limbs and/or losing wins-championships and then saying how cool his driving is?

"I think there is a rule you cannot move under the braking zone, so you cannot move when a car is alongside you," Alonso said. "There is one movement allowed and as long as you are still in front of the car behind."
Asked if that meant Verstappen's defending against Raikkonen on the Kemmel Straight was OK, Alonso replied: "Yeah.

"You think"? Is he joking? Verstappen made two blocking moves, first one was too late (the part when he stopped moving sideways), second one was way too late and completely illegal, both very dangerous especially in combination (not one continuous) And no:

- the other driver does not have to be along side to make this move illegal. You are fully in front you make late move like that it's still illegal, because it's: A. the second one, B. too late/close or C. both like Verstappen here
- you can make one move that is illegal, It depends on how late you are, how close the other car changing the line is, how changing line late like that affects your speed/the other driver's speed and by that if it's causing (by action of one driver which is important in wheel-to-wheel - here Verstappen) dangerous situation or crash.

Instead of co-creating clear rules by clarifying clear examples by drivers/FIA and decisions/penalties that follow them we have cheap politician and hypocrites like that. Plus equally hypocritical crowd/media that is cheer-leading them. The fact that no other driver is talking about and Whiting put his head in the sand is telling too.

[F1NAC]

Funny how Alonso defends this but then crying in situations like with Rosberg in Bahrain 2012.