2016 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 16-18 September

[Gothrek]

Fanboy baiting and Fanboy trolling, gets a moderator boiling. Can we please cut the crap, before I have to resort to mod slap. I wish you all a goodnight, and hope I do not find tomorrow a b*tchfight.

Ok I will stop the nonsense, just wanted to prove a point

[Vasconia]

The contortions Lewis fans make to dismiss Nico's skill set is incredible. Consider this. Since F1 has been only a two horse championship since the new engine regs, the more Nico’s skill set is repeatedly degraded, the less of an accomplishment it becomes if Lewis beats him, and the greater embarrassment for Lewis if he loses.

This happened a lot in Spain with Alonso and all his rivals who were constantly dismissed(Schumacher, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel,etc). And I tended to ask always the same, if your main rival is mediocre, whats the big thing of beating him?

I think the situation with Alonso and Hamilton is vastly different. Circumstances are never the same, just like opinions. I repeat, it's petty to always dismiss Rosberg's performances (Singapore 2016, last three races of 2015) but it's equally important to note that Rosberg has won an awful lot without Hamilton in the picture. It also is a whole new ball game when you're in the same team. If we have to be championship specific, then it's hard to argue against Lewis' misfortune this year. This doesn't mean Rosberg is bad, it just means he's not as good as Hamilton over a season. On his day, Rosberg can run away with it.

I think, the biggest reason why Rosberg is looked down upon as much as he is, is because of his race craft. Whether he's defending or attacking, you just seem to get the feeling that a clumsy daft move is around the corner, If you notice, this doesn;t happen against a driver who's not the cream of the crop, it's always against guys that are renowned champions or winners. To me, more than race craft it's his bottle in a pressure situation that seems to crack. All the other names you've taken against Alonso are WDC and they can fight and win battles wheel to wheel when the pressure is at it's maximum.

Personally, I think Hamilton will make a phenomenal 4xWDC. I'll take it over a 3xWDC and Rosberg as a WDC. However, like I said earlier as well, Schumacher's and Vettel's domination in certain years is often frowned upon, but it just goes to show that winning is never easy and no matter how good the car, you still have to beat the guy next to you! Hamilton seems to have a habit of making things tough for himself.

It would be great if all the people who criticize Rosbeg would use the same words/style as you have done, giving reasons with an aceptable language and not dissmising the driver.

I mostly agree with you. I have only given Alonso´s example because the reactions and insultings comments done in the past have been quite similar.

Wheel by Wheel, under rain and tough conditions I would put my money on Lewis. But Nico is really fast and he is very good managing other short of situations(like brakes, tyres,etc). I think both drivers have their strong points and all of them should be taken into consideration.

[atanatizante]

1.What was the reason Ricci didn`t do the last stint on the US tyre?
Delta was at least 5 tenth per lap between US and SS even with the drop in temperature.
The proof : Vettel did it very well in his last stint with the US tyre.
I think he - Ricci - could have won the race ... or at least have it a try ... you never know what a kamikaze dive could he done ...
And on the same note : why didn`RBR call him 1 lap sooner ? yeah, I know, hindsight ...

2. This debate Lewis vs. Rosberg will never end until someone put the facts on the table - race by race - in an objective manner.
Coz I wanna know - race craft wise - which races Lewis beat Rosberg fare and square (so without those times when the car was faulty, strategy was wrong and so on) and vice-versa.
And (maybe) then we could get the big picture and could chill out this fanboys wave who never have a real argument on their statements ... or at least have it a try

3. Without a SC phase - we could not count the first one - it was a pretty boring race ... until Lewis third stop ...
So what could we learn from this race - and many other - in order to make them look more spectacular ?
The answer is as simple as the race outcome told us : make a rule with at least 3 stop per race.
But most of all we could have an end to this stupid tyre management races and finally let the drivers race wheel to wheel.
Yeah I know, it could put Pirelli on the pressure coz they need to increase with some 25% their tyre stocks ... but everyone else except them will be so happy afterwards ...

[Schuttelberg]

This happened a lot in Spain with Alonso and all his rivals who were constantly dismissed(Schumacher, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel,etc). And I tended to ask always the same, if your main rival is mediocre, whats the big thing of beating him?

I think the situation with Alonso and Hamilton is vastly different. Circumstances are never the same, just like opinions. I repeat, it's petty to always dismiss Rosberg's performances (Singapore 2016, last three races of 2015) but it's equally important to note that Rosberg has won an awful lot without Hamilton in the picture. It also is a whole new ball game when you're in the same team. If we have to be championship specific, then it's hard to argue against Lewis' misfortune this year. This doesn't mean Rosberg is bad, it just means he's not as good as Hamilton over a season. On his day, Rosberg can run away with it.

I think, the biggest reason why Rosberg is looked down upon as much as he is, is because of his race craft. Whether he's defending or attacking, you just seem to get the feeling that a clumsy daft move is around the corner, If you notice, this doesn;t happen against a driver who's not the cream of the crop, it's always against guys that are renowned champions or winners. To me, more than race craft it's his bottle in a pressure situation that seems to crack. All the other names you've taken against Alonso are WDC and they can fight and win battles wheel to wheel when the pressure is at it's maximum.

Personally, I think Hamilton will make a phenomenal 4xWDC. I'll take it over a 3xWDC and Rosberg as a WDC. However, like I said earlier as well, Schumacher's and Vettel's domination in certain years is often frowned upon, but it just goes to show that winning is never easy and no matter how good the car, you still have to beat the guy next to you! Hamilton seems to have a habit of making things tough for himself.

It would be great if all the people who criticize Rosbeg would use the same words/style as you have done, giving reasons with an aceptable language and not dissmising the driver.

I mostly agree with you. I have only given Alonso´s example because the reactions and insultings comments done in the past have been quite similar.

Wheel by Wheel, under rain and tough conditions I would put my money on Lewis. But Nico is really fast and he is very good managing other short of situations(like brakes, tyres,etc). I think both drivers have their strong points and all of them should be taken into consideration.

Thank you for the kind words, Vasconia.

[Schuttelberg]

This happened a lot in Spain with Alonso and all his rivals who were constantly dismissed(Schumacher, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel,etc). And I tended to ask always the same, if your main rival is mediocre, whats the big thing of beating him?

I think the situation with Alonso and Hamilton is vastly different. Circumstances are never the same, just like opinions. I repeat, it's petty to always dismiss Rosberg's performances (Singapore 2016, last three races of 2015) but it's equally important to note that Rosberg has won an awful lot without Hamilton in the picture. It also is a whole new ball game when you're in the same team. If we have to be championship specific, then it's hard to argue against Lewis' misfortune this year. This doesn't mean Rosberg is bad, it just means he's not as good as Hamilton over a season. On his day, Rosberg can run away with it.

I think, the biggest reason why Rosberg is looked down upon as much as he is, is because of his race craft. Whether he's defending or attacking, you just seem to get the feeling that a clumsy daft move is around the corner, If you notice, this doesn;t happen against a driver who's not the cream of the crop, it's always against guys that are renowned champions or winners. To me, more than race craft it's his bottle in a pressure situation that seems to crack. All the other names you've taken against Alonso are WDC and they can fight and win battles wheel to wheel when the pressure is at it's maximum.

Personally, I think Hamilton will make a phenomenal 4xWDC. I'll take it over a 3xWDC and Rosberg as a WDC. However, like I said earlier as well, Schumacher's and Vettel's domination in certain years is often frowned upon, but it just goes to show that winning is never easy and no matter how good the car, you still have to beat the guy next to you! Hamilton seems to have a habit of making things tough for himself.

While I don't agree with everything you said, I find your comments to be fair and objective.
I believe Hamilton lacks in certain areas that are less important in modern F1, but sometimes it bites him.

Thanks mate. F1 is about attention to detail and I don't know what areas you're referring to, but I agree with you. Hamilton reminds me of a tennis player who absolutely smashes his opponent in the first two sets and then when he can smell the cigar, he starts making unnecessary unforced errors, leading to a five setter.

[Schuttelberg]

Hamilton seems to have a habit of making things tough for himself.

I agree. Though I think the margin for winning and losing is extremely tight - so tight, that if something doesn't run according to plan, it raises the stakes beyond the point where winning is still possible. Not against a team-mate as strong as Rosberg and in a car that far beyond the rest of the field.

I too expected (was hoping) that Hamilton would wipe the floor starting with Monza. And he did, at least in Qualifying. Then the start happened and that tiny little error at the start made fighting for the win an impossibility. He was never, ever going to close that gap. Once he found himself as far back down as he was, Rosberg had the win served on a platter. The only thing that could have turned that around, was circumstance, a safety car, something out of the ordinary that would have handicapped the driver leading in some way. It didn't and Rosberg won that one, fair and square.

Singapore is another one of those. The weekend didn't go according to plan and for reasons still unknown, Hamilton just didn't have the pace. I find 7 tenths a huge difference and considering how strong Hamilton ususally is in Singapore, I'm inclined to think that the issue he had in FP2 and the set-up must of had something to do with it. Likewise, Rosberg performed masterfully and simply aced it.

It must be hard this year for either driver. You might stick it on pole, but the starts have been somewhat of a russian roulette for both. That can't be exactly confidence inspiring, especially not for Hamilton who with the exception of Canada I think, never made his pole position stick (well, he didn't there either technically).

Given how tight the margins are and the fact that Rosberg has won more races than he ever did in a season, I'm still inclined to think it's his this year for taking, except a technical issue on his side of the garage turns the tide somehow.

For what it's worth; I think Hamilton needed this bad race in Singapore to give him a kick to perform even better. Given Rosberg now has won 3 races in a row again, it will be absolutely important for Hamilton to strike back next race. If he doesn't, that gap will keep on growing and IMO will also lead to quite a mental advantage for Rosberg. Momentum will be on his side... it already is.

I'd like to pick up on a few things- I don't think you can put it all down to luck. I think we've seen far too often in this rivalry that even when Rosberg is able to get Hamilton at the start, Hamilton can pass him ON TRACK later in the race (Austria being a fine example). I also think the sample size of the rivalry allows us to see that when Hamilton is on it during a particular weekend, he is able to beat Rosberg from quite far behind even if overtaking on track doesn't play a part (Hungary 2014). I hope I don't sound daft but Hamilton just seems deserted for form this year, at times.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, Hamilton never checked in for Singapore. Just so that I'm clear (not with you because we have had discussions in plenty), I'm not hinting at Hamilton's personal life or lifestyle, but there are tell tell signs on weekends this year that Hamilton was simply 'off it.' His body language in Singapore was very different to what it was for a while now and while he's matured into a fine individual not to deflect blame on others or not acknowledge Rosberg's brilliance, he looked quite dull and tired. Again, this is just my opinion but it seems to me that Hamilton seems more alive when he has a challenge. He was driving like a man possessed when he was 43 behind and dare I say, the foot has come off the gas a tad after the summer break. Again, this is a psychological trait I've felt he has, just like with my favourite driver Vettel, when it shits, it pours and it pours in heaps.

I do agree with Phil that the Quali gap is a bit exaggerated. However, it's not just the W07' it's also down to him. I just feel that if Hamilton is switched on for the next six races, Rosberg will find it very difficult. Yet, if you ask someone like me who isn't so concerned who wins the title as much as Phil, if both Rosberg and Hamilton are 'switched on' the logical bet will always be Hamilton and this is no swipe or dig at Rosberg, it's a testament to Hamilton's talent. If Rosberg wins will he be a deserving WDC? If you beat Lewis Hamilton in the same team, even with some luck, you're something special!

This is just my 2 cents.

[Schuttelberg]

1.What was the reason Ricci didn`t do the last stint on the US tyre?
Delta was at least 5 tenth per lap between US and SS even with the drop in temperature.
The proof : Vettel did it very well in his last stint with the US tyre.
I think he - Ricci - could have won the race ... or at least have it a try ... you never know what a kamikaze dive could he done ...
And on the same note : why didn`RBR call him 1 lap sooner ? yeah, I know, hindsight ...

2. This debate Lewis vs. Rosberg will never end until someone put the facts on the table - race by race - in an objective manner.
Coz I wanna know - race craft wise - which races Lewis beat Rosberg fare and square (so without those times when the car was faulty, strategy was wrong and so on) and vice-versa.
And (maybe) then we could get the big picture and could chill out this fanboys wave who never have a real argument on their statements ... or at least have it a try

3. Without a SC phase - we could not count the first one - it was a pretty boring race ... until Lewis third stop ...
So what could we learn from this race - and many other - in order to make them look more spectacular ?
The answer is as simple as the race outcome told us : make a rule with at least 3 stop per race.
But most of all we could have an end to this stupid tyre management races and finally let the drivers race wheel to wheel.
Yeah I know, it could put Pirelli on the pressure coz they need to increase with some 25% their tyre stocks ... but everyone else except them will be so happy afterwards ...

1) I don't think DR had any fresh sets of US left. I'm not sure, but if he did then I'm with you. I questioned this at the time of the stop but my friend said DR had no US left.

2) I've done it to death.

3) Engineers will always find a way to run around rules and make things 'boring.' I was fixated on Vettel for the GP and believe me, just watching the live timings was exciting. He was purple everywhere and was regularly lapping 2.5 seconds a lap faster. Just to put it in perspective, he was plum last, got up to 5th, where Alonso was after Lap 1 and he finished 30 seconds ahead of him. In my opinion, it was one of Vettel's finest drives on a circuit he's an absolute beast at.

What we fans truly need is no artificial gimmicks. Make some rules, let the rules stabilise and eventually the field will be closely bunched. What happens unfortunately is completely the opposite. If, and it's a big IF because I think the Bulls will dominate 2017, we can have two or three teams close to each other, no matter what people will tune in. We don't need new rules, we need competition. Imagine switching on, on a Sunday not knowing whether Lewis will win, Daniel will, Sebastian will or Fernando will. Fans are hungry for uncertainty filled with quality. I believe to win in F1 you always need quality, but the uncertainty can't be guaranteed. It's the nature of our sport.

[iotar__]

I've read that Arrivabene was arrested, is that true ? Supposedly for throwing a cigarette which would be a brilliant marketing stunt (what kind of a cigarette? oohoohooo) and distraction from Ferrari on track antics.

After replays: Sainz on Hulkenberg was worse than anything Kvyat did in Russia. This accident didn't happen by itself and it was only Sainz that caused it. Nothing vs 10 s stop and go. Now imagine Rosberg starting behind and taking Hamilton out like that .

Black orange was a joke to blatantly help marketing hero, in F1 it only matters who you hit and who you are. Why not show black orange to bad clutch Red Bull at the start? More dangerous. Raikkonen in Monaco hitting cars without FW - not dangerous obviously, Sainz in Singapore - no doubts.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

2. This debate Lewis vs. Rosberg will never end until someone put the facts on the table - race by race - in an objective manner.
Coz I wanna know - race craft wise - which races Lewis beat Rosberg fare and square (so without those times when the car was faulty, strategy was wrong and so on) and vice-versa.
And (maybe) then we could get the big picture and could chill out this fanboys wave who never have a real argument on their statements ... or at least have it a try

- Lewis had a total of 4 bad starts, to Nico's 3. Although in Canada both had bad starts, while Lewis recovered to win, Nico couldn't. He had a spin on the last lap too.
- Monaco could have been easily Lewis' pole, if not for the Q3 issue. Despite that, he got 3rd. He still scored the fastest S1 time on his final flier. He did 5 laps in Q3 on single set.
- Hungary could have been easily Lewis' pole. On the last flying lap, Lewis up by 3 tenths in sector 1 compared to Nico's final pole time (s1).
- Set up issues in Baku and Singapore, where Lewis struggles visibly with break issues, hampers the weekend.
- When it was a straight forward fight for qualifying, without any issues, Lewis has been dominant. The margin has been quite significant.
- Lewis had 5 reliability issues. 4 of those gave Nico easy races.

- While Lewis has suffered worst luck for a season, he is still afloat. Though Nico hasn't been as lucky like he was in Monaco'15, but not getting hampered by reliability issues, itself a monumental luck.
- While both have done a clean job when they get ahead, in Austria Lewis proved that, without any issues, he can chase down Nico and force him to make mistakes (just like in Monza'14, US'14 &15).

Now for Mercedes' part.
- Australia - Mercedes' tyre expert says the tires will fail, 5 laps before the race for Nico. They couldn't inform the driver because of radio restrictions. But miraculously, the car finishes the race without the tires failing!
- Russia - A Mysterious issue, where water pressure drops to zero on Lewis' car because of which he is asked to maintain pace. But miraculously, the car finishes the race without failing!
- Austria - Blunder of a strategy that was the root cause of the final lap collision.

I would leave it for people to decide if Nico would have suffered similar fate, would he have come back? Is this a straight forward fight for championship, like it was in 2015 without reliability woes? Would the championship fight been in the same state if Lewis would not have suffered so many issues?

[ChrisDanger]

I've read that Arrivabene was arrested, is that true ? Supposedly for throwing a cigarette which would be a brilliant marketing stunt (what kind of a cigarette? oohoohooo) and distraction from Ferrari on track antics.

The official word is no...

Singapore's National Environment Agency (NEA) – which catches and hands out fines to litterbugs – said no such incident had taken place.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... -littering

[Phil]

Excellent post once again, Schuttelberg.

I didn't want to quote the entire post, so I'll just mark this bit here;

I do agree with Phil that the Quali gap is a bit exaggerated. However, it's not just the W07' it's also down to him. I just feel that if Hamilton is switched on for the next six races, Rosberg will find it very difficult. Yet, if you ask someone like me who isn't so concerned who wins the title as much as Phil, if both Rosberg and Hamilton are 'switched on' the logical bet will always be Hamilton and this is no swipe or dig at Rosberg, it's a testament to Hamilton's talent. If Rosberg wins will he be a deserving WDC? If you beat Lewis Hamilton in the same team, even with some luck, you're something special!

I suppose Singapore is a track where any problem might be exaggerated. Braking is crucial in Singapore and many belief this is where Hamilton in the past has always been able to extract more and have an edge vs other drivers. The braking. This is perhaps the one area that hampered him most; in having to crucially manage the heat of the brakes and perhaps never quite getting the confidence over the duration of the weekend (the whole weekend was messy, just like Baku) it exaggerated the issue and the gap that we saw in the end.

Anyway, I pretty much agree that Hamilton can turn things around if he can recapture his form. My concern is that this may not be enough; You can perform at your absolute best for the entire weekend, much like he did in Monza, and then mess up the start and the race win is history. The starts may not be down entirely to luck, but I would suggest that once you move past the unpredictability of it, it will have a lot to do with confidence. And that confidence might just be lacking. For confidence, you need a certain amount of control and predictability... and this may just be something that will not happen given how much the clutch is dependent on temperature fluctuations and warm-up during the formation lap.

Who knows; Maybe it's solved now. Hamilton had a "reasonable" start, as did Rosberg in Singapore when we watch the top-3 (all except for Max), but then again, I think Singapore is probably less crucial as I think the straight is not all that long.

Anyway, good races coming up. Malaysia, Japan and CotA. 3 races Lewis usually goes well on. If he wants to win his 4th title, he will have to be sharp and faultless and walk away with 3 wins. The last 3 races are tricky; Historically, Brazil hasn't been his strongest of races, though the last two years have been quite close, especially 2014. Mexico is a bit of an unknown looking at last year and Abu Dhabi - well, it's known to be a Hamilton circuit, but Rosberg beat him to pole the last two years...

IMO - this WDC is going to be a close one.

Fun fact though; 6 race wins for either driver would yield a 42 point advantage/swing. Enough to dictate that either driver could still clinch the title before the last race. If Hamilton wins the next 5 races, he'll have at the very least a 26 point lead with 25 still open which would mean he is WDC. On the other hand, if Rosberg wins the next 4 races, he'll have a 37 point lead with 50 still up for grabs, but that would pretty much make him WDC unless he suffers two complete DNFs.

[f1316]

I thought this was interesting:

http://ams.to/vettel-singapore-pace

Not saying he would have one - lots of mitigating circumstances - just interesting.

[Vasconia]

I thought this was interesting:

http://ams.to/vettel-singapore-pace

Not saying he would have one - lots of mitigating circumstances - just interesting.

Vettel is usually pretty fast in Singapur so I think a podium was very possible. A win....just more difficult but wont never know it.

[Silent Storm]

Vettel would have finished in the same position Kimi finished in. If he had a normal qualifying he wouldn't have the luxury of fresh US tyres available to him. Kimi and Seb were on different strategies so there is no data and no point to compare both.

If Seb had normal qualifying he would be ahead of Kimi, they would pit Seb like they pitted Kimi and make the Kimi go till the end.

[Andres125sx]

After replays: Sainz on Hulkenberg was worse than anything Kvyat did in Russia. This accident didn't happen by itself and it was only Sainz that caused it.

What do you have with Sainz? This is second post I read from you in different topics saying Sainz was responsible for the crash, despite it was a start and it was Hulkemberg coming from behind much faster who made the contact

Maybe you think he should have not dodged Verstappen?