Canadian GP 2007

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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:41 pm

DaveKillens wrote:It appears the BMW struck the concrete wall at approximately a 60 degree angle, on the right side. Velocity is purely an estimate (anyone aware of any info on this?) but in excess of 200 kph.


I think Ronald Dennis, the doctor, was quoted talking about 280 km/h + impact speed.
vyselegend
 
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:08 pm

I heard 255km/h, but thats not so important. If there had been a tyre barrier positioned at the corner woth not enough lairs it could have bounced the car over the barrier into oncoming traffic, very scary. I agree though, there must be a better way of doing it, we can't have incidents like that again. I suppose with tyre barriers it takes alot longer to clear up and its very rare to have a crash down that stretch, combined with the need for an access road (look at an arial photo) tyres might not be the most economical way.
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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:41 pm

They could at least spend 10 mins on re-arranging those concrete blocks in a straight line so in case of possible crash, the car wouldn't hit concrete directly and bounce back onto a high speed zone, but it would reduce impact by redirecting inertia forward for more available time to stop.

What happened:
http://www.mircteam.com/slike/kubica1.png

What would happen:
http://www.mircteam.com/slike/kubica2.png

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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:49 pm

Hindsight's a great thing, but remember no one has ever crashed there before.
Tp
 
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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:35 pm

i still think that the 'safer barrier' system should be more widely used, not just on the ovals in the US.....that would have greatly reduced the drama of the impact with the wall.....

back in october when i interviewed Sam Posey i asked him if he thought that these barriers would be able to be used effectivly in F1 and other international series and he said "without a doubt"...........now, if the FIA would just take action........
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fwa2500
 
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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:40 pm

The SAFER barrier that NASCAR uses does a pretty good job from what I know. It may help for accidents like this, but they'd have to do some testing since F1 cars obviously are sharp nosed and may not behave the same in an impact that a blunt nosed NEXTEL Cup car will. But ANYTHING would have been better than a flat, hard concrete wall. The FIA really screwed the pooch here. Not only the spot he hit needs tires or something other, but the walls all around that area need them too. I'd much rather stop a race cleaning up a few errant tires than have a hurt driver.



The coolest thing I've ever heard as an idea would be to have a sponsors billboard pop up if a car hit the wall. How funny would that be?
Ray
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:12 pm

the thing about the barriers is that they were designed with INDY and CART/Champcar cars in mind and even tested them and proved they are equally effective as with the closed-bodied cars.....thats why i think it would be such a great international solution to these vulnerable walls and on high speed turns.....such as the chicane-free Tamburello curve at Imola....

http://www.indycar.com/pro/tech/safer.php

knowing the sick minds of advertisers, they probly would want something like that to be implimented, lol.....would be like those old hotwheels crash sets where stuff pops up when you crash the car into it....
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fwa2500
 
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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:46 pm

Tp wrote:but remember no one has ever crashed there before.


That is absolutely no excuse.

Should FIA use logic or obituaries as the inspiration for taking safety measures? "No one has ever crashed there before" is exactly how FIA brain works: - "If someone crashes horribly, gets injured or dies THAN we'll listen to what common sense and physics told us decades ago. Until than unprotected concrete wall at the place where cars reach 300 kph is ok BECAUSE no one has ever crashed there before."

They should take preventive measures using everything from hints across logic to computer simulations and experiments. But no, they're busy in work on CDG wing, night races and other crap while safety of the circuits is 20 years behind the safety of cars.
manchild
 
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Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:59 pm

we if the computers they used where sims and i was the test pilot they would need crash barriers everywhere!
nae
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006

Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:21 pm

nae wrote:we if the computers they used where sims and i was the test pilot they would need crash barriers everywhere!


and thats where the SAFER barrier can come into play....its realitively low profile and doesnt stick out like a sour thumb in the way that tyre barriers do, so you could essentially completly line a track with them and they would still be hardly noticeable visually.....
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fwa2500
 
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Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:45 am

OK, but all of you have to admit massive amounts of work FIA put in safety of modern F1 cars. Only few years ago, driver would not survive this impact. When I so accident I feared the worst. He hit three barriers. First a glancing blow of his right front that stripped of his wheel, but barely reduced his speed estimated on 200 mph. Next impact on next barrier at more or less 75 degrees that whipped away car’s footwall and rest of his car, andput Kubica on deceleration of cca 30 g. After that car rolled to opposite side of the track and impacted to barrier with much of his kinetic energy spent in rolling. Fortunately, car didn’t impact in this last barrier with his nose, because his booted feet was fully exposed and could be seen trough hall in ripped front.
I think that HANS saved his life. Calculations showed the deceleration he was subject too would not have been survivable without the device. Without this device his neck will not survive this force. We have to remember that Dale Ernhardt was killed in an impact of 45 mph because of neck injuries and sudden deceleration.
Of course, FIA have to improve all the time, but nobody can see all possibilities to an accident. We are all complaining that modern tracks are lost juice of old times. Tracks are all the time safer, but you can’t have track with juice like Spa and safe like Malaysia. You can’t have everything. But of course, FIA have to make it safer. That is F1, 200mph.
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Seas
 
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Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:59 am

Seas wrote:We have to remember that Dale Ernhardt was killed in an impact of 45 mph because of neck injuries and sudden deceleration.


Actually Dale was killed in excess of 45 miles per hour. Quite a bit above that. It was a lesson we should have never had to learn. I think NASCAR is a great leader in track and driver safety. They are constantly improving the cars and tracks. The so called "Car of Tomorrow" is a great example of this. The main focus was safety improvements of the current car design. Though I could do without the splitter and funny rear wing they use now. It's doesn't look right.

As far as safety improvements go, there is no solace in saying "well it's better than it was." You should NEVER fall back on that. You should always ask "What can we improve so this is even safer?" Sure, he might have been killed a few years ago, but they should focus on the problems and shortcomings of what was NOT in place to limit the severity of the accident.

I did not know they developed the SAFER barrier for ChampCar/IRL. They benefit from it so F1 should follow suit and install them on all their tracks. Or a comparable system at least. Cost shouldn't be a factor, nor should installation time. I think that if they have to delay a GP to install the system, then I'm more than happy to forgo my F1 fix and wait.

The thing that scared me the most was the way Roberts head was bouncing off the cockpit sides. Don't know if any of you out there watch NHRA drag racing, but Eric Medlen was tragically killed not too long ago. His head bounced around with the same severity that Roberts' did, if not worse, and he suffered fatal injuries from it. It was a huge shock and a sad day to hear someone so young and with such a bright future to be so suddenly gone. There is a MASSIVE hole in the collective NHRA heart, just the same when Darrell Russell was killed. He died from a piece of a tire coming through the rear of the roll cage and hitting him in the head. Another lesson learned with too big a price. Goodyear redesigned the tires to try and stop that from happening, and all the teams were required to install a shield between the engines and the cockpits to stop debris from coming in through the back.

I was on the edge of my seat hoping and praying the same didn't happen to him. I don't know if there is a device that can limit that kind of impact to a drivers head, but it should be looked into. In my opinion at least. I know the cockpit sides are padded, but there has to be a device limiting that kind of movement.

Sorry for the long post. :oops:
Ray
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Location: Atlanta

Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:42 am

Ray wrote: I don't know if there is a device that can limit that kind of impact to a drivers head, but it should be looked into. In my opinion at least. I know the cockpit sides are padded, but there has to be a device limiting that kind of movement.

Isn't that what the HANS device is for? But as we saw with Kubica, the head is way too exposed to and moved too much at those speeds and levels of impact. The HANS is an area that could benefit from advancements as well. Theres no such thing as too much safety, especially in high speed motorsports like F1.

And it seemed that the area surrounding the feet (foot well?) is not strong enough. Definately should be reinforced for further driver safety.

Thank God he's alive and kicking still.
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mx_tifoso
 
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Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:28 pm

Seas wrote:Of course, FIA have to improve all the time, but nobody can see all possibilities to an accident. We are all complaining that modern tracks are lost juice of old times. Tracks are all the time safer, but you can’t have track with juice like Spa and safe like Malaysia. You can’t have everything. But of course, FIA have to make it safer. That is F1, 200mph.


Modern circuits aren't safe at all. They lack same cheap barriers as the oldest circuits. Heikki Kovalainen Bahrain test 2007 - hits unprotected armco, huge crash. Narain Karthikeyan crashes heavily in Sepang few years back. How come? Ultra modern circuits, hundreds of millions $ spent on them and a straying cars hit unprotected walls and armcos?
manchild
 
Joined: 3 Jun 2005

Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:54 pm

Kubica crash high res photos. Some of them I haven't seen before, like this photo of his helmet http://marvin.kset.org/~sepa/f1/kubica/helmet.jpg

more here :arrow: http://marvin.kset.org/~sepa/f1/kubica/
manchild
 
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