European GP 2007

[FLC]

They should give the lollipop guy a drive-through then.

Rob W

No, just the team. Maybe on Thursday .

[pRo]

Some of you are on such a weird anti-McLaren tip I have to wonder aloud why Hamilton didn't try to back Massa up towards Alonso when he was about to be lapped again. He just pulled over ages before Massa was even close.

Yeah, he did. Cause apparently he got the blue flag, once, way before that. It was shown on the screen that Hamilton got blue flagged more than two minutes ago.

I was also wondering why, cause Massa wasn't even close yet. But rules are rules. No one tells the guys with blue flags when, they make the decision themselves. Even Ferrari fans.

McLaren showed very sporting behaviour in this instance which I very much doubt you'd see from a red car nearly as often.

No, not really. Just trying to avoid punishment for this very strange and early blue flag.

[pRo]

It doesn't really bear thinking about but it has to be thought of because at the end of the day it was a wrong descision and the best way to avoid it happening again is to penalise the guy who made it so it is more carefully considered in the future.

I suppose we'd need an exact rule for cases like this then. We wouldn't want penalties for one and none for the other for similar thing, would we? There has already been enough of these debatable penalties over the years.

How about if there's another car less than 5m away from the car about to exit, the car can't exit? Or 10m? We'd also need lines for every team to show exactly the place. I suppose it would make things interesting.

[hatchet man]

As per my post earlier in this thread about Hamilton's help back to the track. It has been declared legal by the FIA but in this pic by f1-live.com, it is clearly not a safe situation with a car coming down the straight.

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070724094756.shtml

Perhaps I am put off by the Hamilton Hysteria but Hamilton's car was not the only one that was undamaged in the 1st corner parking lot. Others should have been given the chance to restart as well.

[Tom]

I think it was because Hamilton was the only driver to keep the engine running. All the others arrived off the track backwards. The reason STR are making a fuss is because the race was red flagged and they weren't allowed to rejoin even though their cars where in ok condition, but without running engines. Perhaps they'd have liked the marshals to put them back on the track and push start them or bump start from the digger, I seem to remember a yellow minardi (Mazzacane I think) getting this treatment a few years ago.

Regarding the red flag, Hamilton was allowed to continue because his car was on the track and racing when the flag came out while the STRs wheren't. Its a similar situation to the Hunt-Mclaren dq back in 1976 at Brands Hatch. James Hunt was involved in a first corner collision and limped round the track with his suspension ruined, as he pulled into the side of the road to retire the flag came out, Mclaren collected and repaired the car and put him onto the restart grid. He won the race but after many legal battles over the next few months he was officially dq-ed because his car would not have been able to race had the red not come out. He still won the championship though in a contraversial last round which took place in conditions similar to those which foiled STRs race.

I'm more interested in this myself:
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070724103402.shtml

Oh, and well done DC, 20th to 5th, and Webber too, great racing from both of them.

[modbaraban]

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070724094756.shtml

Perhaps I am put off by the Hamilton Hysteria but Hamilton's car was not the only one that was undamaged in the 1st corner parking lot. Others should have been given the chance to restart as well.

Perhaps Ham's engine was still running unlike others.
Can anyone quote the regulations where it says that: car that has its engine running should leave the danger zone asap with the help of marshals if unable to do it on its own.

EDIT: oops it was answered already

[Spyker MF1]

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070724094756.shtml

What makes me made is how he was perfectly happy to put the marshalls lives at risk. If the car coming down the straight had lost it like many others he could quite easily have hit that marshall, and I'm not sure but his car doesn't look to high either and if it was low enough could of decapitated the driver or something. All I can say is Hamilton and McLaren were lucky something like that didn't happen

[pRo]

What makes me made is how he was perfectly happy to put the marshalls lives at risk.

I'm not sure how things were run, but I can only assume that Hamilton was in no position to command the marshalls.

Or do you know better?

[mx_tifoso]

What makes me made is how he was perfectly happy to put the marshalls lives at risk.

I'm not sure how things were run, but I can only assume that Hamilton was in no position to command the marshalls.

It seemed like he was expecting a "lift" back onto the track by not turning off his engine when he knew he was stuck. Possibly other drivers who don't recieve so much preferential treatment would have turned it off immediately.

But who knows what Hamilton was thinking really, I sure don't.

[pRo]

What makes me made is how he was perfectly happy to put the marshalls lives at risk.

I'm not sure how things were run, but I can only assume that Hamilton was in no position to command the marshalls.

It seemed like he was expecting a "lift" back onto the track by not turning off his engine when he knew he was stuck. Possibly other drivers who don't recieve so much preferential treatment would have turned it off immediately.

But who knows what Hamilton was thinking really, I sure don't.

Would be interesting to hear his radio conversation over that time. I'm guessing the team told him to keep it running.

Either way, I'm sure the marshalls did what they thought was best. You can't really blame Hamilton for that. If they thought it's too dangerous to put him back on track, I'm sure they wouldn't have done that. And the fact that all the other drivers shut their engines isn't Hamiltons fault either.

Preferential treatment, or not giving up too easily?

[Spyker MF1]

What makes me made is how he was perfectly happy to put the marshalls lives at risk.

I'm not sure how things were run, but I can only assume that Hamilton was in no position to command the marshalls.

Or do you know better?

When did I say he was commanding the marshalls? By sitting in the car and getting the marshalls to put him on track it was making their job a lot more dangerous. As normally they would be far back from track next to the tyre barriers.

[pRo]

What makes me made is how he was perfectly happy to put the marshalls lives at risk.

I'm not sure how things were run, but I can only assume that Hamilton was in no position to command the marshalls.

Or do you know better?

When did I say he was commanding the marshalls? By sitting in the car and getting the marshalls to put him on track it was making their job a lot more dangerous. As normally they would be far back from track next to the tyre barriers.

So you agree that the marshalls did what they thought was best?

They had no obligation to put his car back on track. They could've ordered Hamilton to turn the engine off, is they wanted. They could've ordered Hamilton to get out of the car, if they wanted. They could've lifted the car beyond the fence, if they wanted. Instead they chose to put it back on the track. They must've thought it's not too dangerous. If they thought their lives are at risk by doing it, I'm sure they wouldn't have done it.

[modbaraban]

They had no obligation to put his car back on track.

If a car stops during the race (except under Article 142c) and d), it must be removed from the track as quickly as possible so that its presence does not constitute a danger or hinder other competitors. If the driver is unable to drive the car from a dangerous position, it shall be the duty of the marshals to assist him. If any such assistance results in the engine starting and the driver rejoining the race, the car will be excluded from the results of the race

[pRo]

They had no obligation to put his car back on track.

If a car stops during the race (except under Article 142c) and d), it must be removed from the track as quickly as possible so that its presence does not constitute a danger or hinder other competitors. If the driver is unable to drive the car from a dangerous position, it shall be the duty of the marshals to assist him. If any such assistance results in the engine starting and the driver rejoining the race, the car will be excluded from the results of the race

Like I said, they had no obligation to put his car back on track.

They could've just assisted him out of the dangerous place, by lifting the car on the other side of the fence, next to the other cars.

[modbaraban]

This is twisted logic I'm afraid.

Assisting means helping someone do something, not do something to someone against his will. Don't remember seeing a driver willing to be 'sent' out of the race while he's struggling to leave the gravel zone.

I'm not a Lewis fan or an FIA fan ( ) but this situation, being weird and all, is still within the rules even if contradicting the spirit of the rules. No point to argue unless you are so blinded with hate for Ham (or love for his opponents) that much and see him always wrong no matter what etc bla bla bla.