No, if Hamilton couldn't get around a car that was 1 1/2 seconds slower than him, then I don't see why you'd think he'd fare so much better against the Red Bulls or Ferraris. My point is valid - the excitement came, as usual, from artificially mixing up the grid; not from the track or because the overtaking problem magically disappeared. Had the grid not gotten mixed up, we'd have seen the six top cars circle around the track on each other's tails in the same order they came out of the first corner, with a few position changes coming out of the pit stops and if we were lucky, one - maybe two - actual overtaking attempts among them.andartop wrote:I think your post is self contradictory: if the only interest for you came out of Lewis' and JB's performance then had the rain not messed up their quali the race would have been even more interesting as you would have had the chance to admire what the McLaren drivers would be capable of achieving against the likes of Red Bull, Roseberg and Kubica rather than the newbies, the Torro Rossos and the underperforming Ferraris!Pup wrote:99% of that passing happened in the first 1/4 of the race, and was entirely due to Hamilton's qualifying position. The only interest in the remaining race involved Button and his failing tires. And absolutely nothing happened among the top five for the entire race, except for Schumacher's retirement. Nothing has changed - without the rain on Saturday, the race would have been a snoozer.
Totally + 1Pup wrote:No, if Hamilton couldn't get around a car that was 1 1/2 seconds slower than him, then I don't see why you'd think he'd fare so much better against the Red Bulls or Ferraris. My point is valid - the excitement came, as usual, from artificially mixing up the grid; not from the track or because the overtaking problem magically disappeared. Had the grid not gotten mixed up, we'd have seen the six top cars circle around the track on each other's tails in the same order they came out of the first corner, with a few position changes coming out of the pit stops and if we were lucky, one - maybe two - actual overtaking attempts among them.andartop wrote:I think your post is self contradictory: if the only interest for you came out of Lewis' and JB's performance then had the rain not messed up their quali the race would have been even more interesting as you would have had the chance to admire what the McLaren drivers would be capable of achieving against the likes of Red Bull, Roseberg and Kubica rather than the newbies, the Torro Rossos and the underperforming Ferraris!Pup wrote:99% of that passing happened in the first 1/4 of the race, and was entirely due to Hamilton's qualifying position. The only interest in the remaining race involved Button and his failing tires. And absolutely nothing happened among the top five for the entire race, except for Schumacher's retirement. Nothing has changed - without the rain on Saturday, the race would have been a snoozer.
In other words, same snoozefest as always.
You can always spice things up by artificially shuffling the order. I'm not saying the race wasn't interesting and fun to watch, just that we have to be honest and accept it for what it was. Giving credit to the track design, or sticking ones head in the sand about F1's overtaking problems is naive.
I am aware that I am in a minority position but I think that defending by not holding your line on a straight should be illegal. We would have cleaner and safer racing that way. Alas, the rule is different and we have to respect the rule. I just say I would make different rules if it was up to me.Just_a_fan wrote:I can't believe I'm reading this! The driver in front should not deviate at all? Just drive in a straight line and wait for the car behind to overtake him? [-XWhiteBlue wrote: It is not! Good racing is selecting your racing line through corners in such away that the opponent is discouraged from overtaking. Changing direction on a straight is bad racing. Even one move on a straight isn't good from a fundamental point of view. We have it in the rules but it is not good for racing. Rules should help overtaking and not make it more difficult or dangerous. Drivers in front should hold their racing line on a straight. Full stop.
Overtaking is not racing; it's a part of racing. Defending your position is also a part of racing. The key is that both overtaking and defending are done safely (or as safe as we can reasonably expect young men in 200mph cars to be).
A gentle weave along the straight to try to stop a tow is safe and is part of defending. Chopping the other driver in the braking zone is not safe and should be dealt with. The rules should not help overtaking at all. They should increase the possibility of overtaking. It's up to the drivers' skills to make, and defend, a pass.
If it were up to you every driver out there this weekend would have been penalised because everyone of them moved across the track to defend a line at some point.
Listen to yourself!
Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left. However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the stewards of the meeting.
n smikle wrote:Petrov should be penalised too. He was also committing an abnormal change of direction!
Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left. However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the stewards of the meeting.
ISLAMATRON wrote:Since you two "gentlemen" love consistancy so much I should be able to go to the Austrailia race thread and read where you guys blasted Massa for his obvious(because he took off pieces of their front wings) blocking on Button and Hamilton. Because that would be consistancy...
Pandamasque wrote:What are you on about on Massa? Can anyone give me the approx lap/time of the race when that happened? I'd like to see that.
Pandamasque wrote:ISLAMATRON wrote:Since you two "gentlemen" love consistancy so much I should be able to go to the Austrailia race thread and read where you guys blasted Massa for his obvious(because he took off pieces of their front wings) blocking on Button and Hamilton. Because that would be consistancy...Pandamasque wrote:What are you on about on Massa? Can anyone give me the approx lap/time of the race when that happened? I'd like to see that.
I watched the race twice and didn't spot anything. Your argument about 'that move over there' is weak unless you back it with some footage.ISLAMATRON wrote:Nobody is here to watch/post the race for you, and if you didnt then why are you comentating on consistancy? Be more consistant in watching the races, please. It was clear as day and replayed several times.
I think that comment is a bit far fetched. Whilst Webber I am sure will be kicking himself for not shutting the door and Vettel drove a great race you cannot after 3 races say anyone has stamped their authority. Going by your reasoning we might believe that Alonso, Hamilton , Schumacer, Liuzzi Petrov etc etc just go home as they are behind their teammates in the points. Lets wait until mid season to see what happens eh?WhiteBlue wrote:
I guess that Vettel has stamped his authority over Webber and that Webber will loose the psychological battle for the championship sometime in the next three or four races.