Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

[richard_leeds]

EDIT +++ Link for Richard

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/06/08/hamiltons-engineer-got-it-wrong-over-button-pass-whitmarsh-admits/

+++

Thanks. I don't read that as shifting or changing the story. It clarifies a human error by the engineer. What will happen in future is that the engineer will only convey the facts, not personal opinion. Prew's reply should have been "you are still racing".

Also, Whitmarsh does confirm that Hamilton did slow down abnormally on turn 8 on that lap, Button had been 1 second behind at the start of that lap. What driver wouldn't have had a shot at passing on seeing the car ahead suddenly lose one second in one sector?

Error on both their parts I think.

edit to add-

I love Whitmarsh's words "there was a reasonably fair and equitable equilibrium". We need more of that common sense in F1.

[ringo]

Whitmarsh

He asked a question and Phil Prew gave an instinctive and immediate response which is that he didn’t think Jenson was going to pass. He knew that they’d both been given the same instruction to save fuel.

Lewis understood that and wasn’t about to give up first place easily. He made a fairly robust overtake to ensure he remained in the lead.

Thereafter I think the two of them decided there was a reasonably fair and equitable equilibrium and they were looking to ensure they finished comfortably with fuel and with cars intact.

It looks like Button ignored recommendations here. It's not wrong that he attacked, it's racing, but it's a little sleazy. I don't think Lewis would do such a move, knowing both cars were saving fuel, too cheap a move and he doesn't like handouts and freebies.

Well at least that is cleared up. Button ignored instructions to save fuel, he felt he could overtake lewis then save his fuel to the finish. Little did he know that you can't lead Lewis home saving fuel with 10 laps to go.

[DaveKillens]

Well at least that is cleared up. Button ignored instructions to save fuel, he felt he could overtake lewis then save his fuel to the finish. Little did he know that you can't lead Lewis home saving fuel with 10 laps to go.

Please, please, please, this is just your opinion. My conclusions from me watching the same race on the same video differs. I also prefer to allow a driver to stand on his own merit, not build arguments on how good he is based on trashing other drivers.

How easy is it to casually trash a driver who although he was not as quick as his teammate, through good racecraft and driving found himself in touch with the leaders, did take the fight to Hamilton when the win was in question, to eventually fall in line because of team orders.

[ringo]

Well at least that is cleared up. Button ignored instructions to save fuel, he felt he could overtake lewis then save his fuel to the finish. Little did he know that you can't lead Lewis home saving fuel with 10 laps to go.

Please, please, please, this is just your opinion. My conclusions from me watching the same race on the same video differs. I also prefer to allow a driver to stand on his own merit, not build arguments on how good he is based on trashing other drivers.

How easy is it to casually trash a driver who although he was not as quick as his teammate, through good racecraft and driving found himself in touch with the leaders, did take the fight to Hamilton when the win was in question, to eventually fall in line because of team orders.

So you are saying he gave back hamilton the place?
So hamilton displayed no race craft pressuring and chipping away at the red bulls and Jenson had masterful race craft for..?

I agree he found himself in touch with a chance to go ahead of his teammate, as sleazy as it was, a chance is a chance.

Button fell in line by swift action from his teammate, not team orders. As i said, he did well to make a move when he did. However at the time i could not foresee how he would have stayed ahead of Hamilton while he himself had to go into fuel saving mode.
And a seemingly more critical saving mode at that.

Those 2 simply could not race all out to the finish that day. Neither could one pass the other one napping while expecting to stay ahead without a 10 round fight.

Button cannot win a straight up fight with Hamilton in the same car, for 10 laps, on a track like turkey with that back straight, with his engine's in limp home mode. Sounds like blind faith, but it's true.

[gilgen]

Well at least that is cleared up. Button ignored instructions to save fuel, he felt he could overtake lewis then save his fuel to the finish. Little did he know that you can't lead Lewis home saving fuel with 10 laps to go.

Please, please, please, this is just your opinion. My conclusions from me watching the same race on the same video differs. I also prefer to allow a driver to stand on his own merit, not build arguments on how good he is based on trashing other drivers.

How easy is it to casually trash a driver who although he was not as quick as his teammate, through good racecraft and driving found himself in touch with the leaders, did take the fight to Hamilton when the win was in question, to eventually fall in line because of team orders.

So you are saying he gave back hamilton the place?
So hamilton displayed no race craft pressuring and chipping away at the red bulls and Jenson had masterful race craft for..?

I agree he found himself in touch with a chance to go ahead of his teammate, as sleazy as it was, a chance is a chance.

Button fell in line by swift action from his teammate, not team orders. As i said, he did well to make a move when he did. However at the time i could not foresee how he would have stayed ahead of Hamilton while he himself had to go into fuel saving mode.
And a seemingly more critical saving mode at that.

Those 2 simply could not race all out to the finish that day. Neither could one pass the other one napping while expecting to stay ahead without a 10 round fight.

Button cannot win a straight up fight with Hamilton in the same car, for 10 laps, on a track like turkey with that back straight, with his engine's in limp home mode. Sounds like blind faith, but it's true.

Button was immediately told by his pits to "save fuel". Look how quickly he dropped back. That was a deliberate message to the pits!

[mx_tifoso]

What is wrong with you guys? Must you keep on responding to each others BS? No one is trolling by just adding simple opinions. This thread will be cleaned up a bit so if your post is gone than you know it doesn't belong in here, especially the personal ones.

Don't be surprised if this thread gets closed. You guys care about this stuff more than the teams do. Let it go for crying out loud.

[andrew]

Fair enough. When accusations of trolling start flying it is time to call it quits as all reasonable arguments have been used.

[mx_tifoso]

Actions speak louder than words Andrew. You've previously agreed with me only to let it slip out the other ear in a matter of seconds. Let your actions do the talking please.

[andrew]

Sorry, had a run in earlier with a poster who I have dealt with before and should have tunrned the other cheek rather than engage with them again. I'll make a note for next time!

[komninosm]

So you are saying he gave back hamilton the place?
So hamilton displayed no race craft pressuring and chipping away at the red bulls and Jenson had masterful race craft for..?

I agree he found himself in touch with a chance to go ahead of his teammate, as sleazy as it was, a chance is a chance.

Button fell in line by swift action from his teammate, not team orders. As i said, he did well to make a move when he did. However at the time i could not foresee how he would have stayed ahead of Hamilton while he himself had to go into fuel saving mode.
And a seemingly more critical saving mode at that.

Those 2 simply could not race all out to the finish that day. Neither could one pass the other one napping while expecting to stay ahead without a 10 round fight.

Button cannot win a straight up fight with Hamilton in the same car, for 10 laps, on a track like turkey with that back straight, with his engine's in limp home mode. Sounds like blind faith, but it's true.

Button was immediately told by his pits to "save fuel". Look how quickly he dropped back. That was a deliberate message to the pits!

Perhaps he dropped back because he had little fuel left after his fight with Hamilton (he was low on fuel before the fight) so he had to cruise home (and thus the gap from Hamilton grew in the last 10 laps). He was told to save fuel before his pass too you know...

[ringo]

exactly

[komninosm]

Fair enough. When accusations of trolling start flying it is time to call it quits as all reasonable arguments have been used.

Opinions aren't arguments

[komninosm]

Sorry, had a run in earlier with a poster who I have dealt with before and should have tunrned the other cheek rather than engage with them again. I'll make a note for next time!

I'm sorry too

[strad]

Let it go for crying out loud.

[Paul Oz]

Sorry to rekindle this discussion..... but a very balanced blog here; http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... s_dis.html
I agree 100% on views ref Mclaren..... not sure about RB...