Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Two other ideas for 2015:

- To further develop the idea of an official post race video (with high resolution and no full black cars :) ) and gallery: I don't aim to copy, but, las it happens in real races, the funniest thing is to compare our project to the other cars. To race against numbers is not so interesting.

- (Not sure about this second one, but let's do some brainstorming) What about considering the possibility to run more than one car for each team (max 2 cars, paying a fee for each car) and to publish the Machin track chart AFTER the race? In this way each team could run with two different setup (i.e. levels of DF/DRAG), or with only one setup if confident about it. Only wings regulations could vary between car1 and car2 (this would be realistic and it would make easier the legality check.

astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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@caedevice - it wasn't a dig to anyone about the legality. I accept some people will try there best but still will be illegal and of course i'm always available to discuss things.

What i would want to do is as you suggest make sure the rules are much more clear and visual. As you say, include pictures and also as we did this year but slightly better, translate that into sketch up. It would help more, and would allow better self legality checks before submission.

julien.decharentenay
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Joined: 02 Jun 2012, 12:31

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Two things:

1) I made a presentation last night on using Blender to render CFD results - using Matteo's car (thanks a lot). It is publicly available on slideshare at: http://www.slideshare.net/JuliendeChare ... ng-blender. The files can be downloaded from https://s3.amazonaws.com/cfdresultspubl ... lender.zip

2) Compliance checking:
CAEdevice wrote:1° illegal submission: the partecipant is alerted by email, and he has a chance to modify only the illegal part (the same as 2014)
2° illegal submission: the partecipant is alerted by email, and he has a chance to modify only the illegal part (the same as 2014) + 0,25 sec penalty
3° illegal submission: the partecipant is alerted by email, and he has a chance to modify only the illegal part (the same as 2014) + 0,50 sec penalty
more illegal submission: the partecipant is alerted by email, and he has a chance to modify only the illegal part (the same as 2014) + 1 sec penalty
Thanks a lot for the feedback. The changes to compliance checking are aiming at addressing a different aspect. Compliance checking of every aspect on every car is a very time consuming exercise and probably not very exciting. It is also challenging to enable one person to have both knowledge and free time to do these checks. Luke did a great work at it this year - but this also prevented him from taking part and designing his own car... We are looking at two ways to address this: (a) simplify the rules to make compliance checking easier, (b) not checking all cars at all races. Any ideas/comment is welcome.

I have one more thing to do for KVRC2014 - a little surprise coming up - and will then get into holiday mode for a couple of weeks.

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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I think that the penalties could help to have more legal cars at first attempt.

A solution could be to make only a general dimensions check and then to release hr images or videos so that other partecipants could indicate precise areas to check.

Another solution could be to make a general check and only two or three detailed check after the race and before publishing final results. Detailed check could involve the winner, the second classified and another random one. It works in the same way with antidoping in cycling races (my other passion :) ).

astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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One idea is that only random cars will be checked each race (but not so random that a car will never be checked), with no option of re-submission. How many would depend on participants.

We could expand this idea and release images of all the cars once the submission date has passed (before the race), and if people see something they think might be illegal on a car they can report it and we will check.

We could go further and say all podium cars are checked as well (if they haven't been already)

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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astracrazy wrote:One idea is that only random cars will be checked each race (but not so random that a car will never be checked), with no option of re-submission. How many would depend on participants.

We could expand this idea and release images of all the cars once the submission date has passed (before the race), and if people see something they think might be illegal on a car they can report it and we will check.

We could go further and say all podium cars are checked as well (if they haven't been already)
Good point!
My summary:

- General quick check for each car (it depends on wich CAD will be used to open the models, but most CAD can do it automatically): everything in the main volume, rear wing flaps and diffuser in theirs respective volumes, front wing flaps in theirs volume, step heigth and rake (don't underestimate the rake... 0,5° can influence very much the results)

- Detailed check for the (potential) winner and for one random car out of five. If the (potential) winner were not legal, the second would be checked and so on until a legal winner is found

- No re-submission: to each not legal car is attributed the lap time of the slower legal car, plus a penalty of 0,5s. Alternativley, each team has the oppurtunity to provide a "safe" geometry that would be used in case of not legality (that would be checked and computed only one time at the beginning of the season): obviously it would have been designed with intermediate DF levels to adapt with compromises to each track. No updates would be allowed to the "safe" geometry during the season.

astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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no, the random cars will be checked properly to the rulebook.

two types of expansions to that could be participants can view cars (like they would be able to in real life) and bring it to our attention if they believe something to be illegal.

And/or podium cars will be checked after the race as well if they haven't already been done so.

This is just one idea

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Anyway, the car that would be checked in detail should be three or four, except for the requests of other partecipants. I think that only one request per race and per partecipant should be allowed, to avoid a too high number of requests.

astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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well there needs to be a balance. It would be unfair to prevent someone from reporting something they believe to be illegal - especially if they get beaten by that car and its not one we have randomly checked. Some people, i'm guessing, may not bother where others might see it as a challenge and worth doing - because the offender will be penalised if illegal

the idea of this way is to make it more community based and we enforce it

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variante
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Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 11:36
Location: Monza

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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So, guys, what are the plans for the next season?

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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variante wrote:So, guys, what are the plans for the next season?
I'm waiting for news too, what about the referece rules (still F1?) What about the CFD solutor?

I'm going to make some tests to use OpenFoam/Khamsin instead of SWX Flow Simulation: is there a tutorial about that? I'm lookig for a template with the boundary conditions (including external box, wheels, suspensions and ground) and the possibility to substitute only the body/wings reference to be imported with snappyhexmesh.

I'd like to begin to design the new car in advance this year.

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machin
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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I can tell you that behind the scenes discussions about next year are on-going, but I'm not really in a position to comment (to be honest I don't think anything is decided yet).

I've been doing some CFD using Khamsin myself, and I found a link to a file which sets up the tunnel and all the rest of like you want... I'm sure it was on an earlier page of this thread... I'd try and re-find it but I'm on my phone, so not very easy!
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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machin wrote:I can tell you that behind the scenes discussions about next year are on-going, but I'm not really in a position to comment (to be honest I don't think anything is decided yet).

I've been doing some CFD using Khamsin myself, and I found a link to a file which sets up the tunnel and all the rest of like you want... I'm sure it was on an earlier page of this thread... I'd try and re-find it but I'm on my phone, so not very easy!
Thanks, I'm going to look for the link!

astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Hi Guys

Yes we are currently in discussions regarding next season. Currently being discussed is next years rules. As you can appreciate we are not full on at the moment so there is generally a meeting once a month. We are looking into various options and looking at the pro's and con's of each.

Staff wise there are a few changes:

Nick has returned and Chris is now helping out. Julien is still full on. I'm unfortunately taking more of a back seat now due to other commitments - so I am taking up more of a supporting role.

Rest assured we will keep you all updated as we go.

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy
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Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Glad to hear from you!