Ringo F1 design

[Holm86]

gonna move on now to the gear box end of things and beam wing. Sorry for the snail pace.

No worries. You could always get a job at HRT then

Looking real good.

[ringo]

[Tozza Mazza]

Do real F1 cars have a pivoting driveshaft?

It's not an area I've really thought of, but I guess it has to move!

[ringo]

i think they use CV joints, but the shaft is splined to allow for length change during suspension movement as i have it here.
I just use one big ball joint to simplify the model. Didnt want to get to detailed with cv joints as i would never finish.

Now that the shaft is in, i realize how extreme the angle is. As the gear box is like the Williams design. The A arms and pull rods are next, but i am finalizing the geometry in MS paint.
Print screens and pasting into MS for doodling makes for good rough work.

[ringo]

I was thinking of using pull rod on this baby, but since the car is not real i guess i can push the envelope.

I came up with this concept called cable suspension. Instead of rods, the car is suspended by cable.

There is a cable for compression and one for rebound. This is needed as a cable cannot compress; it can only carry tension. The cables are very thin and are drawn through pulleys inside the gearbox to the torsion springs.

I'm not sure if it is advantageous or not, but it's interesting.
If it's a thin enough cable then there will be an aero benefit and also a mechanical benefit. 2 cables means that there is the option to have 2 suspension systems.
Each cable can have its own springs dampers etc. So this makes suspension tuning more independent on compression and rebound.

Cables also make it possible to keep the dampers in the most unusual places. Cable and pulley system means there can be all kinds of direction changes in the car to transfer the force to the springs and dampers.
Suspension may well be in the sidepods under the exhaust or by the crank case.

[DaveW]

I came up with this concept called cable suspension. Instead of rods, the car is suspended by cable.

There is a cable for compression and one for rebound. This is needed as a cable cannot compress; it can only carry tension. The cables are very thin and are drawn through pulleys inside the gearbox to the torsion springs.

I'd be interested in more details, ringo, because (forgive me) I don't think the idea would work, let alone be a "benefit"....

[ringo]

It would work, whether it would be reliable is another story.
More moving parts i imagine.

The cable material is not decided; need to do research.

There will be no more exploding rods in side crashes at least.

You know what, i'll use the pull rod, as the cable suspension will side track from finishing the car, but i still have the concept in mind. Drawing it will be interesting.

[MIKEY_!]

Go for carbon fiber cables.

[DaveW]

Go for carbon fiber cables.

Yes, but.... I once rig tested an Arrows with carbon fibre pull rod front's which turned out to have poor installation stiffness. I was told that the pull rod itself was fine, the difficulty lay in transferring loads to & from it without introducing excessive compliance.

[marcush.]

i think they use CV joints, but the shaft is splined to allow for length change during suspension movement as i have it here.
I just use one big ball joint to simplify the model. Didnt want to get to detailed with cv joints as i would never finish.

Now that the shaft is in, i realize how extreme the angle is. As the gear box is like the Williams design. The A arms and pull rods are next, but i am finalizing the geometry in MS paint.
Print screens and pasting into MS for doodling makes for good rough work.

inside joint is a tripode joint

[ringo]

this is an F1 shaft right? What's the diameter and thickness?





lower A arm still left to do. Trying to map out where to place the hard points.

I am thinking of mounting the beam wing on the rear arm support over the gearbox like williams.
Crash structure is still left to do, then we have an almost finished car.

next up is front suspension, under nose farings, detail the front wing, then onto CFD.

changing gears a bit...

The FIA banned my exhaust solution after seeing the thread, which stemmed from blowing the diffuser, and they will ban most other solutions that influences aerodynamics.

How about i use the aerodynamics to influence the driver's skill?

They dont bring ECGs to inspections, and i know they dont have test rigs for drivers.

This approach to performance is unheard of and downright trifling. It is fully legal though. I'll explain it later. It heightens the senses and response of the driver, any driver; no drugs involved.
Basically the driver will be a cyborg once in the car and "hooked up".

[Holm86]

I must say that i like the theory of your cable suspension. IMO it tould work great if you could get cables that wont break.

But there must be some weight penalty?? If i understand your idea correctly there will be 2 dampers and 2 torsionbars at each suspension point?

[myurr]

I must say that i like the theory of your cable suspension. IMO it tould work great if you could get cables that wont break.

But there must be some weight penalty?? If i understand your idea correctly there will be 2 dampers and 2 torsionbars at each suspension point?

Wouldn't you end up with more material in the airflow? Both cables would have to cope with the loads in their given direction, whereas a rod would only have to cope with the max load of the two, if you see what I mean. E.g. by making a rod strong enough under compression it's most likely strong enough (or only needs some small adjustment) under tension.

For the cables you need both of them to be strong enough under tension, so that's twice the material of just the rod under tension. Or am I missing something?

[ringo]

Yes it has it's flaws.
The only plus is if there is a composite cable out there that otherwise wont be used as a pushrod or pullrod.
The cable doesn't undergo buckling load, so it will be considerably thinner, assuming the same or better strength to volume.

I'll be putting pull rod on this model however. It's a headache to design the cable and pulley suspension.

[MIKEY_!]

There was a Volkswagen concept a while back (precursor to the Up! series I think) that used carbon cables for wheel spokes (tension wheels) if that helps.