Ringo F1 design

[pascaljackson]

the more i get into the program the more i appreciate your work ringo

[MIKEY_!]

Volkswagen Up! Lite.

[ringo]

I'll look into it.

[Blackout]

Nice work Ringo. neat, methodical...

[ringo]

Been working on the rest of the suspension.
Did the beam wing and rushed through the crash structure.

What's left is the front wing elements that sit above the main plane. Thinking of making it like the E20 Lotus wing.
Also the barge boards, turning vanes, front suspension and the basic car should be done.

After that on to CFD to see what should have been, as this is a 2011 car. The good thing is i can compare the downforce to the 2012 when i make it.

The 2012 will have to rushed compared to this one. I've learnt what not to do from this car, and i'll improve on the technique with the 2012 model.

[ringo]

How about i use the aerodynamics to influence the driver's skill?

I was thinking..
After looking at Hamilton's braking skill, why is it that he has this feel on the brakes and others dont?
Is it possible to give a less skilled driver, not the ability, but the information to know what the tyres are doing under load.

I have devised a system which falls under the communications part of the regulations.
This system is passive, in fact it does not provide data to the pits, it only provides data to the driver. It does not feedback to the car.

What if each wheel has a transducer which relays loading, slip and tyre wear to the driver?
The driver's suit is plugged into the car when he hops in. His limbs have pads or whatever can be used to give a sensation of pressure, touch, shock or whatever stimulus best illustrates the condition of each wheel, be it slip, wear, loading.

The driver would be able to directly understand what the tyres are doing and his brain will quickly learn how to "feel" the car. This will indirectly increase his reaction and senses. The driver is not influencing the car, the car is now the one influencing the driver!
For instance the right leg will be connected to the right front wheel, the right shoulder to the right rear wheel. In a sense the driver's nervous system will have a connection to the car. Mark you, the stimulus is simply a touch or a shock; there is no intravenous connection.

It doesn't break the rules because there is no aero influence, neither is the pit engineers controlling the car. Neither is the driver using any disallowed mechanical device to control the car. This is simply an information system like the shift light and the rev clock, and the driver is using it as information to control the car.

How does this idea sound?
Imaging getting a squeeze and tingle on the leg as the tyre scrubs, deforms and begin to lock...

[MIKEY_!]

If it's legal (and I really have no idea if it is) it would be brilliant! A driver with no feel for brakes could drive! Here's an idea. I think more powerful brakes (or something to that effect) tend to have less 'feel'. This system could allow cars to be fitted with brakes that have no feel at all, and the driver would still know exactly what was going on.

[hollus]

Sounds brilliant to me, Ringo. Not that different from a HUD that nobody would deem illegal. You are putting the information on the drivers sensory "path" instead of in his visual path.

[Paul]

Only thing I know in technical regulations that covers this is related to traction control and reads:

Code: Select all

Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.

Any additional HUD though seems to be banned by this paragraph:

Code: Select all

Any electronic modules used for driver information displays and switch inputs must be
supplied by an FIA designated supplier to a specification determined by the FIA and be suitably
housed by each team.

[ringo]

This may be an issue:

Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.

However this is about the onset. We can go around the onset and deal with other aspects of the wheels. This sensory system isn't really for traction control.
The driver's reaction is not as quick as a TC systems. It's really about feeling, how to know how much performance the tyre can give.

Any electronic modules used for driver information displays and switch inputs must be
supplied by an FIA designated supplier to a specification determined by the FIA and be suitably
housed by each team.

This one is easy to skirt. This system has no displays and has no switch inputs.

But i have a feeling such a system would have to be kept under wraps. The FIA will find ways of banning it.
It's somewhat of a steroid or performance enhancing drug.

Anyhow i think it's a really cool system, and would like to see it implemented this year if a team catches on to it.

[flynfrog]

an f1 driver can "feel" through the wheel of the car had his sense of balance. Im not sure a suit is going to relay the info near fast enough or in a way that the body could use the info. There is some pretty good reading on the way the senses of the body allow us to drive at speed.

http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Secrets-Pro ... 465&sr=8-1 I forget what one details the way the brain is processing the info but the whole series is a good read.

[MIKEY_!]

The brain connects an occurrence with a simultaneous stimulation. For example some University did an experiment where volunteers wore a belt which vibrated at a point along itself closest to magnetic north. Within a few days of continuous (day time only) wearing the subjects reported that they no longer noticed the vibration but could pick out magnetic north on 'instinct'. Based on that it should not matter whether the driver 'feels' the car through his vibrating suit or the steering wheel (given time to adapt).

[PNSD]

How about i use the aerodynamics to influence the driver's skill?

I was thinking..
After looking at Hamilton's braking skill, why is it that he has this feel on the brakes and others dont?

This thread was relatively interesting.... until this.

Nothing that has happened previously, in any instance suggests this is true. Hell, I have no idea where this idea is even come from :s!!??!

I can remember as many instances where Lewis appeared better on the brakes during an overtake as any other driver! But that's during an overtake, I am I don't need to explain the circumstances of that kind of situation, but I will anyway; During an overtake, the car overtaking is obviously quicker at that time!

Otherwise what else have you based this observation on? When I look at Sector times, the one that springs to mind is Abu Dhabi and sector 2 with the heavy braking zones, I see that Button is as quick.

I've not come here to start anything, I just don't understand how the basis of your idea is that Lewis is somehow better at braking than all other drivers, and so to compensate you are attempting to work out if you can artificially create sensations to help the other drivers.... Let me put this to you. They are some of the best drivers in the world, they know how to brake. Other's might sometimes be more brave, but again the circumstances for that are based on many things.

I remember reading a few years back a driver (I cant remember who, DC maybe!) said the skill of braking has been lost, and now it's about how hard you can hit the peddle!! I tend to agree with him! If I were to add something constructive, I would say aim this at more a tin top, possibly a NASCAR machine where you will see larger differences for braking, and of course in a 40 odd car field, larger differences in talent.

[ringo]

Button is not as quick from raw numbers. Visually and even by the clock his ability simply doesn't match up under equal circumstances.
You can't be slower 3 tenths a lap on a qualifying lap and be equally talented.
Hamilton does have an uncanny braking ability, this is observed fact. Button isn't even in the picture i that sense. If someone has to tell another this guy is equally good, and no one else can see it for themselves, then something is wrong. Check his overtakes, all done before he reaches the braking zone; keep in mind he chooses to overtake in this way as he doesn't play the last man brakes wins game.
His setups also speak volumes, his famous "it's on the nose, take off some wing".


And it's not always the hard braking zones, you need a good tyre feel to pull off some of the overtakes LH doing. Germany 2011 overtake on Alonso and on Vettel into turn 1? IIRC. Many more mid speed maneuvers he seems sure footed in the car while doing it. Hungary 2011 duel with Vettel etc.
I wouldn't classify Button as a pilot will exceptional braking abilities or car control.
He'd have put up more of a challenge last year had he possesed that ability. He doesn't push beyond what is considered comfortable.


The thing with this proposed system, it give you more than the feel through the steering wheel. I've never driven an F1 car to say what the steering is telling me, but more feel compounded onto the steering can't be a bad thing.
It's not like i am proposing to eliminate the steering wheel.
Secondly the steering cant say much for the rear tyres, the driver can only feel this through his back i suppose.

About the system the suit wont be any different than a current suit. What will be different is the driver may wear something like this on his ankles for example:


He will feel when the tyre goes on a painted line, when it slips on a wet curb, slides in the gravel, unloads on a wet track and feel the creation of a flat spot while the wheel is locked. All this stimuli coming in simultaneously for all four wheels. The driver would soon forget about the chassis and just see his limbs as the wheel hubs.

Finaly, keep in mind this system can extend to things like driveshafts, gears and other parts of the car that always fail because they can't be monitored in vivid detail. A driver will no longer need the engineer to tell him the gearbox will explode in 5 laps, he will feel it, he would know if its team orders or not!

[ringo]

maybe the above concept can subtitue for the split exhaust, which would be illegal for 2012, when i do the 2012 car.