2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[Sasha]

1)The very compact PU design was pushed by Mclaran.(they are still pushing it,doesn't want the TC moved to the rear of ICE)

2)Arias agreed to that.

3)HRD engineers felt they could make it work.

But...

1)Honda went the wrong way with design.(Efficiency is more important than Top-End power)

2)Underestimated the heat made by the PU(cost them a season..2015)

3)Wasn't getting the same numbers in the real world that they got on paper/lab.(design....TC,TC rpm,MGU-H and MGU-K/heat/part failures was the the problem)

[Thunder]

In the End, as i stated here before, it is not fair to blame Honda or McLaren alone. This was a Joint Effort and the decisions were taken in unison. They got it wrong.

Let 2017 come and see what they can do with what they learned in the past 2 Years.

[Jef Patat]

Do i really have to search for the Article i posted 3 times already here quoting Arai saying McLaren forced nothing on them? I should use that as my Signature....

Edit: Here you go, fresh from the (by then) Source:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compani ... rough-year

Page 2:

... McLaren once told us that we don't have to be aggressive in downsizing our power unit. But we are determined to shrink the size by whatever means possible.

i have the same feeling. Do we need to have this discussion over and over again. Mostly because people start it with unfounded non arguments

[Vasconia]

At least if they can make a complete redesign of the PU they should be on the top next season.

[diffuser]

Do i really have to search for the Article i posted 3 times already here quoting Arai saying McLaren forced nothing on them? I should use that as my Signature....

Edit: Here you go, fresh from the (by then) Source:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compani ... rough-year

Page 2:

... McLaren once told us that we don't have to be aggressive in downsizing our power unit. But we are determined to shrink the size by whatever means possible.

I guess Wazari was wrong....

[diffuser]

At least if they can make a complete redesign of the PU they should be on the top next season.

Yeah ..I'm not sure it works like that. They'll get better ....."on top" is another matter.

The best thing about next year is no more tokens. So we might see radical changes in season on the PU.

[McG]

Do i really have to search for the Article i posted 3 times already here quoting Arai saying McLaren forced nothing on them? I should use that as my Signature....

Edit: Here you go, fresh from the (by then) Source:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compani ... rough-year

Page 2:

... McLaren once told us that we don't have to be aggressive in downsizing our power unit. But we are determined to shrink the size by whatever means possible.

Thanks for that. Some people really need to get real on this subject.

It's most likely 100% Honda's fault. Honda have done sonewhere between a bad job and terrible job.

They will need to do a terrific job in 2017 to win my support.

[Sasha]

Do i really have to search for the Article i posted 3 times already here quoting Arai saying McLaren forced nothing on them? I should use that as my Signature....

Edit: Here you go, fresh from the (by then) Source:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compani ... rough-year

Page 2:

... McLaren once told us that we don't have to be aggressive in downsizing our power unit. But we are determined to shrink the size by whatever means possible.

Thanks for that. Some people really need to get real on this subject.

It's most likely 100% Honda's fault. Honda have done sonewhere between a bad job and terrible job.

They will need to do a terrific job in 2017 to win my support.

Fault is 50-50. Mclaren asked for the wrong PU design for this formula and Honda(Arias) didn't say no to them.
The good thing about Arias gone now,there is some good thinking,speaking out,open talks with all engineers on the team now.
Mclaren fell for the spin story MB was floating in 2014 that the compact PU and split-turbo was the secret sauce...it wasn't...the combustion design and fuel was the secret sauce.

[mclaren111]

What is the verdict on rear tyre wear last weekend ??

Good enough improvement if any at all ?? Thx

[GoranF1]

What is the verdict on rear tyre wear last weekend ??

Good enough improvement if any at all ?? Thx

Sochi is the most low degradating tyre track on the planet Earth.
No verdict yet.

[Sasha]

Upgrades for next race.....mostly for awhile will be on chassis side.

Aero and new floor(DF to Drag is just bad now).

Battery storage and maybe MGU-H and MGU-K improvements(software).ERS improvement before the ICE improvements.

[McG]

Do i really have to search for the Article i posted 3 times already here quoting Arai saying McLaren forced nothing on them? I should use that as my Signature....

Edit: Here you go, fresh from the (by then) Source:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compani ... rough-year

Page 2:

Thanks for that. Some people really need to get real on this subject.

It's most likely 100% Honda's fault. Honda have done sonewhere between a bad job and terrible job.

They will need to do a terrific job in 2017 to win my support.

Fault is 50-50. Mclaren asked for the wrong PU design for this formula and Honda(Arias) didn't say no to them.
The good thing about Arias gone now,there is some good thinking,speaking out,open talks with all engineers on the team now.
Mclaren fell for the spin story MB was floating in 2014 that the compact PU and split-turbo was the secret sauce...it wasn't...the combustion design and fuel was the secret sauce.

Source for McLaren TELLING Honda how to make the engine please.

[Sasha]

It's funny......you talk anything bad about Mclaren even if it is true,your the devil and people take points away from you.

Talk bad about Honda,they pat you on the back and give you points even if it could be wrong.

As an insider,I now wished we didn't go and chase Mclaren to put our PU in their chassis. It wasn't worth the money it is costing(Honda is paying most of the bill for the team and 1/2 of the drivers salary) Honda and the negative press.We are now thinking RB/TR or Sauber would of be better deal for Honda. But past history blinded the people in charge at the time(Ito and Arias).

Problems.....

Honda PU is down on power/efficiency and ERS at the moment but is actually doing very well compared to last year.

MP4-31 is pretty much a brick wall in the air at the moment(DF to Drag isn't close to top chassis),Barcelona upgrades hopefully helps that problem.Rear suspension design hurts tire wear.

[trinidefender]

It's funny......you talk anything bad about Mclaren even if it is true,your the devil and people take points away from you.

Talk bad about Honda,they pat you on the back and give you points even if it could be wrong.

As an insider,I now wished we didn't go and chase Mclaren to put our PU in their chassis. It wasn't worth the money it is costing(Honda is paying most of the bill for the team and 1/2 of the drivers salary) Honda and the negative press.We are now thinking RB/TR or Sauber would of be better deal for Honda. But past history blinded the people in charge at the time(Ito and Arias).

Problems.....

Honda PU is down on power/efficiency and ERS at the moment but is actually doing very well compared to last year.

MP4-31 is pretty much a brick wall in the air at the moment(DF to Drag isn't close to top chassis),Barcelona upgrades hopefully helps that problem.Rear suspension design hurts tire wear.

Sasha I think it really is best to ignore these people. They don't realise that this blame game gets nobody anywhere.

Can't people see that McLaren started with a total clean sheet design last year on the chassis and aero side and with a Honda engine that was developed very quickly. Doing well last season or this season would have been a miracle.

From what I can see both McLaren and Honda have made tremendous progress from the beginning of last season. A chassis really takes 3 to 4 seasons to properly mature and for a team to truly understand it. Both Honda and McLaren need to keep making steady progress as they have done.

From what I can see the connection from the vortex generator (which is no longer a vortex generator) to the vertical fin next to the sidepod is there to reduce drag. Creating a vortex creates a lot of drag. The flow is still pushed outwards however as it is a closed loop now a vortex will not form in the traditional sense. This reduces induced drag maybe even more than the point that the increased surface are increases it. It joining piece can also help to control any turbulence that finds its way into that area.

I think the only things that McLaren and Honda are really guilty of at this point is over hyping fans. Fans fell for it and when the miracle didn't materialise, it sent people into a frenzy and playing the blame game.

[Thunder]

Source for McLaren TELLING Honda how to make the engine please.

No one said that. Like i wrote earlier in a Works relationship the Car is a Joint Effort. Of Course McLaren has a Plan of the Car the PU would go in, so they ask Honda to build a PU to fit into these specifics. And Honda really thought they could do it. And seeing the Arai quote posted earlier they were going down that Route anyhow. So at that Point all was great since Chassis and Engine department were completely in line. Turns out they were wrong.

So now the Engine has an Architectual Problem that can't be fully fixed until 2017. And this could be just as well where the rumoured bad DF/Drag Ratio comes from. I don't know if it's really true, didn't really hear much in that Direction to be honest. But if the Engine Manufacturer quotes the Chassis Manufacturer a specific Power Number that's what they will Design the Chassis for. If the Engine doesn't deliver that Number you're pretty much doomed. You basically have to change your Design Philisophy of the Car to countermeasure that. Which is a huge undertaking. Merc for example doesn't have to be so picky in Terms of Efficient Downforce, you see that all around their Car. But they have the Power to Pull that Thing through the Straights.

So yeah, things will take Time..... Both sides have quite some Homework to do.

Oh and @Sasha: I don't know if you catched how BedBull was pulling Renault through the Dirt last Year but i don't want to know what would have happened if there would have been a 2015 Honda PU in the Back of the RedBull...