2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Pierce89
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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SameSame wrote:
Sayeman wrote: Problem is Mclaren will try to put the blame on Honda if they are not competitive in Singapore, just like they did in Monaco.
Their explanation was that the poor Honda engine "compromised" the chassis downforce. There was also talk of poor drivability of the Honda engine which didnt have any proff whatsoever
Let's see what happens in Singapore. If the Honda engine could allow them to qualify in the top 10 in Spa then at a track like Singapore McLaren will have nowhere to hide if they do not perform well.

I agree that in Monaco driveability was not an issue
Except Mclaren are on record saying they don't have a max DF street setup at all this year, because they've focused strictly on efficiency because of the Honda. At Monaco, they ran similar DF to every other track this year.
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FW17
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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If he had kept up with Hulk he would have stayed ahead of Perez and Vettel. That car was only capable of doing a 1.55 stint while Force India could do a 1.53

techman
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Comparing sector times we can know if it´s a poor chassis or a good one configured like it is, for example is Spa S2 it looked like a good chassis, but we don´t know if its configuration was the ideal to shine in that sector, or if they still have some more margin they´re not using because of the lack of power
a very good chassis can run skinny rear wings like redbull and mercedes and still get good efficient downforce through the floor section and that why redbull and mercedes set the benchmarks in chassis peformance. we both saw how thiny the rear wing are of both, inefficient chassis like william or mclaren try to get the downforce through a large rear wing, this is ineffficent downforce causes loss of straight line speed, and especailly in power circuit u have run skinny wing to get good straight line speed. mclaren ran a large rear wing so did william and both struggle in the straights, william could not overtake alonso and william got overtake by others easily , wrong setup.

Anyway what is your expectation for monza, i pretyy sure you will say no points for mclaren.

techman
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Except Mclaren are on record saying they don't have a max DF street setup at all this year, because they've focused strictly on efficiency because of the Honda. At Monaco, they ran similar DF to every other track this year.
wrong jenson said they ran more downforce post spa qualy, wrong setup, inefficient mclaren chassis. its easy to see a big rear wing compared to the top guys, so did william, no wonder william struggled in a powercircuit.

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amho
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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I checked the race video & I compared the speed that Hamilton, hulkenberg and Alonso change their gearbox speed to 8th gear, Hamilton and Hulkenberg both shift to 8th gear around 293 km/h(before Eau rough) while Alonso shifts to 8th much later in the end part of kammel & in 314km/h(although they might have shifted gears in different rev but difference is huge), it means that Mclaren have chosen very long gear ratio in 7th gear, it kills acceleration through 7th gear compare to Mercedes and explain their deficiency in speed trap.I agree that Honda engine is weak but choosing such gear ratio makes thing worst.
following pictures are taken from the time that Hamilton was in process of overtaking Alonso and also Ham -hulkenberg battle.
http://i64.tinypic.com/10r5kcw.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/ztb0qb.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/296hm3s.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/34y2rh2.jpg
Last edited by amho on 31 Aug 2016, 21:37, edited 3 times in total.
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Alonso Fan
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Just post the image links if they're online..if not you'll have to use an image upload service like tinypic, then post the link
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mrluke
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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If Mclarens problem was fuel saving then they would be slow at the start of the race (carrying more fuel than rivals) and fast at the end of the race (no more weight penalty). I am not convinced we have seen this.

Personally if I was Mclaren and I knew that we had an under performing power unit, I would be targeting the low power/high downforce tracks as my opportunity to get a really good result rather than ignoring these tracks and focusing on the ones that I will do really badly at.

Glad to see the forum coming around to "maybe it isn't all Honda's fault."

I cant wait to see how Mclaren get on at Monza, im guessing people will be surprised by their good performance 8)

PhillipM
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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You're assuming they put more fuel in, they don't because it hurts the tyres too much, they just end up lifting and coasting much more than the others through the race, which is why they suddenly get massive pace drop-offs even though you occasionally see Alonso bang in a pretty quick lap now and again.

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Alonso Fan
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Yeah I remember that lap in Russia he did, it showed what was capable if the ICE fuel efficiency is sorted out
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godlameroso
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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At the same time you have to consider that they had one car left and the last 3 times they ran Alonso's new PU it had reliability issues. Plus no point in pushing the car to try to fight off a car that's over a second per lap faster. If they get another 7th-8th place in Monza, it's going to fare well for some of the next races.
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VT-Doo
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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amho wrote:I checked the race video & I compared the speed that Hamilton, hulkenberg and Alonso change their gearbox speed to 8th gear, Hamilton and Hulkenberg both shift to 8th gear around 293 km/h(before Eau rough) while Alonso shifts to 8th much later in the end part of kammel & in 314km/h(although they might have shifted gears in different rev but difference is huge), it means that Mclaren have chosen very long gear ratio in 7th gear, it kills acceleration through 7th gear compare to Mercedes and explain their deficiency in speed trap.I agree that Honda engine is weak but choosing such gear ratio makes thing worst.
following pictures are taken from the time that Hamilton was in process of overtaking Alonso and also Ham -hulkenberg battle.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10r5kcw&s=9
http://tinypic.com/r/ztb0qb/9
http://tinypic.com/r/296hm3s/9
You'll probably find that the gear ratio(s) are longer because the Honda engine can't rev as high as the Mercedes PU, therefore can't rely on the revs for the higher speeds.

Does anybody have a video of the rev counter(s)?

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HPD
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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"Our race pace is better than our qualifying pace . We are running a little more downforce than rivals and our consistency is good long-term"

"It is the stage where we can fight, but will arrive circuits where we can fight wheel to wheel with Force India and even Ferrari "

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp- ... b4588.html

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amho
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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VT-Doo wrote:
amho wrote:I checked the race video & I compared the speed that Hamilton, hulkenberg and Alonso change their gearbox speed to 8th gear, Hamilton and Hulkenberg both shift to 8th gear around 293 km/h(before Eau rough) while Alonso shifts to 8th much later in the end part of kammel & in 314km/h(although they might have shifted gears in different rev but difference is huge), it means that Mclaren have chosen very long gear ratio in 7th gear, it kills acceleration through 7th gear compare to Mercedes and explain their deficiency in speed trap.I agree that Honda engine is weak but choosing such gear ratio makes thing worst.
following pictures are taken from the time that Hamilton was in process of overtaking Alonso and also Ham -hulkenberg battle.
http://i64.tinypic.com/10r5kcw.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/ztb0qb.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/296hm3s.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/34y2rh2.jpg

You'll probably find that the gear ratio(s) are longer because the Honda engine can't rev as high as the Mercedes PU, therefore can't rely on the revs for the higher speeds.

Does anybody have a video of the rev counter(s)?
silverstone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KnfVFQ3f6c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsZjr7j2LUE
Mercedes driver changes gear at 7th gear; 285 km/h @11545 rpm.
Alonso changes gear at 7th gear: 313 km/h @12266 rpm.
Honda engine rev at 285 km/h is 11366 rpm (7th gear)
Last edited by amho on 31 Aug 2016, 21:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Alonso Fan
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Amho, with regards to embedding pictures in your post, as soon as you upload an image to tiny pic, it will give you 4 or 5 links. Copy and paste the link labelled with 'forums' into your post to embed it. The link will start and end with an [img] tag, that's the one you want. Just put that in your post and you're all set
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SameSame
SameSame
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Pierce89 wrote:
SameSame wrote:
Sayeman wrote: Problem is Mclaren will try to put the blame on Honda if they are not competitive in Singapore, just like they did in Monaco.
Their explanation was that the poor Honda engine "compromised" the chassis downforce. There was also talk of poor drivability of the Honda engine which didnt have any proff whatsoever
Let's see what happens in Singapore. If the Honda engine could allow them to qualify in the top 10 in Spa then at a track like Singapore McLaren will have nowhere to hide if they do not perform well.

I agree that in Monaco driveability was not an issue
Except Mclaren are on record saying they don't have a max DF street setup at all this year, because they've focused strictly on efficiency because of the Honda. At Monaco, they ran similar DF to every other track this year.
That's what was really encouraging about their performances in Hungary and Spa. Hungary they were the solid 4th best team and in Spa they managed a result that was unthinkable a few months ago; even if they had the best of luck. Both chassis and PU has come such a long way since Monaco, and if they have can introduce an aero update to go with the new engine upgrades then that could really make for exciting times =D>