2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Manoah2u wrote:
20 Jul 2017, 21:50
i don't get it.
JoeSaward wrote:
Sauber played a big part in my weekend in Austria, largely because I had, let’s say, a lively discussion with the owner, who did not like what I had written about the team. He made the fatal mistake (as do many blog posters) of accusing a journalist of bias. Hell hath no fury… When he asked me why I had not got his views on the subject I replied that if he came to more races it would be helpful. He asked why I did not call to which I replied that getting the telephone number of a vastly wealthy but reclusive individual, who does not even wish to be named, was not exactly the easiest thing to do. I explained to him that I had taken the only course available and spoken to his representative and taken into account what he had said, but apparently this was not good enough. So we did not really get on. When I asked him to explain what the supposed targets that Monisha Kaltenborn failed to meet, he told me to mind my own business. When he asked me to name my sources, I told him it was none of his business. He ranted, in a rather condescending fashion, about how Formula 1 people in general don’t understand business, cannot read balance sheets and P&L statements. The point he missed is that F1 teams employ clever people to do that for them and what is most important is leadership and passion. Everything else is secondary to this and believing that teams will be successful if they have the right corporate structures and that F1 is just like any other business is not a sensible approach when one looks at history and sees how much money was wasted by corporate giants Toyota and British American Tobacco, or when one looks at the mistakes that Red Bull, for example, made in F1 before eventually getting it right. There is a very long list of people who have arrived and said that F1 is the same as any other business, only to depart with their pockets emptier and their egos dented. Being rich is obviously a big advantage in life, but it doesn’t mean you know all the answers, which is a mistake that billionaires often make. What it does do is give you the chance to screw up and then buy yourself out of trouble.

The other element that the invisible team owner misses is that going into the F1 business means that one is buying into a media and entertainment business. And trying to be invisible in a media business is a bit like wandering into a minefield, wearing a blindfold and juggling balls in the air. You might get out of it without your cover (and other bits) being blown, but it’s not a great idea. We all know (if we have half a clue) who the owner is, but some of us have deferred to his wishes to remain anonymous, in order to have a good working relationship with him. However, berating journalists because they don’t write what you want to hear, is not a good way to develop working relationships and, to be honest, right now I really see no reason why I would want to keep the name secret any longer.


sauberfan
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Joined: 23 Jan 2015, 12:32

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Joe Saward wrote:

The major chat in F1 circles at the moment is all about engines and it is getting interesting. Sauber seemed to have the basis of a deal with Honda (it was announced by Honda and they tend not to be silly) but the word is that in order to get Frédéric Vasseur Sauber has had to agree to switch engines. Fred might like Mercedes and he is very close to Toto Wolff, but it seems that the F1 Commission needs to give permission for more than three supplies and one can see that this will never happen. The F1 Commission cannot agree on whether to open a window, let alone rules and regulations.

Given the political power of Mercedes (in terms of votes) one can see Renault and Ferrari wanting few Mercedes teams and more teams with their engines to give them more political clout. So Sauber will need to stay with Ferraris next year, probably 2018 versions of the engine, and the word is that F2 rising star and Ferrari protégé Charles Leclerc will be snapped to drive. Pascal Wehrlein will move on, which is probably sensible…

[...]

Fred Vasseur going to Sauber is a brave move for him, but given the time he took to negotiate the deal, it is fair to say that he must have got pretty much everything he wanted. He will, no doubt, get a flat in Zurich and live there a lot of the time, but he will also spend time back in his native France, where the wine and cheese is better (for a Frenchman). One would suggest that he has also been given the choice of engineers and drivers he wants. The owners of the team are awfully keen to point out that there is no favouritism towards Marcus Ericsson. They were so keen to point this out that they recently had a meeting for the whole team to explain that the evil media was making up stories about favouritism. The odd thing is that Wehrlein was not there. Some say he was not invited, but maybe he just forgot and spent the day shopping in Migros… It was all a bit odd really.

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OneAlex
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Joined: 24 Oct 2015, 13:31
Location: England

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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If there truly is turmoil at Sauber and Wehrlein is being pushed out then actually he's doing a very good job by keeping quiet considering his youth.

If his F1 career was in peril I imagine the temptation would be to spill the team's beans in order to show it's not because of him. But that would almost certainly be looked upon negatively by other teams. He needs to be seen as a team asset.

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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so who is the unnamed *rsehole owner? i know a picture has been posted but i am clueless who it is?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Raleigh
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Joined: 29 Jul 2014, 15:36

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Hans Rausing. If you've ever drunk milk out of a paper carton, well, that's the guy who owns the patent on the carton. Co-owner of the biggest food packaging company in the world.

Longbow is the secretive investment arm of a bunch of swedish billionaires, among them Hans, his nephew Finn Rausing and Karl-Johan Persson (owner of H&M). Together they have a combined net worth upwards of $33 billion (more than twice that of Dietrich Mateschitz). In turn Persson is a business partner of Marcus's father Thomas Ericsson.

In effect, as long as Longbow owns Sauber the team might as well be called Ericsson Motorsport, Marcus doesn't just have sponsorship, his backers have brought a whole F1 team for him...

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Ah yes, the name sounds indeed familiar. Didn't have a face with it though.
Now it's starting to make sense.

So as if Kaltenborn hasn't done enough horror to the team by her presense alone, she also threw the team to the wolves in the form of signing it with Longbow.
Great. Yeah, financially Sauber for now is secure, but this will tear the team apart.
and yes, it's indeed essentially Marcus Ericsson F1 Team & Co. The most talentless team inside and out on the grid right now.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Webber2011
10
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 01:01
Location: Australia NSW

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Raleigh wrote:
22 Jul 2017, 01:04
Hans Rausing. If you've ever drunk milk out of a paper carton, well, that's the guy who owns the patent on the carton. Co-owner of the biggest food packaging company in the world.

Longbow is the secretive investment arm of a bunch of swedish billionaires, among them Hans, his nephew Finn Rausing and Karl-Johan Persson (owner of H&M). Together they have a combined net worth upwards of $33 billion (more than twice that of Dietrich Mateschitz). In turn Persson is a business partner of Marcus's father Thomas Ericsson.

In effect, as long as Longbow owns Sauber the team might as well be called Ericsson Motorsport, Marcus doesn't just have sponsorship, his backers have brought a whole F1 team for him...
Without doubt THE best summary I've read on the whole situation regarding ownership.

Thanks heaps for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated.

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TAG
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Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 16:18
Location: in a good place

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Things that make you go hmmm.... with the will they or won't they Honda/Sauber partnership, Honda's junior driver Nobuharu Matsushita is being reported as having gotten a seat on the second day of the upcoming testing.
माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

kptaylor
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Joined: 01 Feb 2012, 22:11
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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But he also drives for Fred's F2 team. Maybe the original deal was the PUs and the Honda pay driver so Fred wants to see how he'll do in F1 machinery before agreeing to the original deal.

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JonoNic
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Joined: 05 Mar 2015, 15:54

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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I wonder what the role of Sauber will be? Will they be using the untested PU parts so that Mclaren can have a more stable next year? (hopefully in terms of reliability). Starting at the back of the grid with PU penalties shouldn't be an issue... Right?
Always find the gap then use it.

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Sniffit
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Joined: 05 Feb 2015, 23:42

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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JonoNic wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 17:17
I wonder what the role of Sauber will be? Will they be using the untested PU parts so that Mclaren can have a more stable next year? (hopefully in terms of reliability). Starting at the back of the grid with PU penalties shouldn't be an issue... Right?
Doubt it, the new owners are die hard race fans. While I do not doubt that they will take a measured approach, like Renault has, their goal is not to be a rolling dyno.

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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On what base did you conclude the new owners are 'die hard race fans'?
All i got was that they're a bunch of swedish rich blokes that decided to pair together and play some f1,
yet don't want to come out of their shells and hide, and when confronted with critisism attack a well known and respected journalist.

i don't see how people that hire a absolute worthless driver [ericsson] are concidered 'die hard' race fans,
nor how hiding in the shadows is supporting that - i'd say it's actually the other way around.

i am curious though as to know how you concluded their goal is not to be a rolling dyno, as any information about it/them is virtually non-existant.
some sources would be very much appreciated, all in good intent.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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diffuser
207
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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I could foresee a Hass/ferrari type future relationship, where Hass ran the New PU 1 race earlier than Ferrari. Not enough reliability or power at Honda yet for that. McLaren is gonna want any and all updates ASAP. So I think in the short term, it will be even Steven. It will be just 2 more PU to put Mileage on it.

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Big Mangalhit
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Joined: 03 Dec 2015, 15:39

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Raleigh wrote:
22 Jul 2017, 01:04
Hans Rausing. If you've ever drunk milk out of a paper carton, well, that's the guy who owns the patent on the carton. Co-owner of the biggest food packaging company in the world.

Longbow is the secretive investment arm of a bunch of swedish billionaires, among them Hans, his nephew Finn Rausing and Karl-Johan Persson (owner of H&M). Together they have a combined net worth upwards of $33 billion (more than twice that of Dietrich Mateschitz). In turn Persson is a business partner of Marcus's father Thomas Ericsson.

In effect, as long as Longbow owns Sauber the team might as well be called Ericsson Motorsport, Marcus doesn't just have sponsorship, his backers have brought a whole F1 team for him...
Tecnhically that picture is of Hans Kristian Rausing, the son of Hans Rausing which himself owned the patent of the tetrapak but sold his shares to his brother Gad. Hans Kristian has constantly battled with drug addiction and even hid the body of his, also drug addicted, wife for months after her death. He never showed any interest with his fathers business and although he still is incredible rich I am not sure if he is involved with Sauber.

The other side of the Rausing family on the other side seems to be more involved in business life. The son of Gad Rausing, Finn Rausing is the one mainly thought to be involved in the holding that owns Longbow and thus Sauber, together with Ericsson and Persson.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2016 ... 84e90c7f9b

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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As per Honda, who let the name slip, the person they met at Sauber factory on 10 July was Hans Kristian.

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