Scuderia Ferrari 2012

[beelsebob]

Alonso's win:
20% luck.
50% consistency.
30% Alonso.

Personally I'd go with
40% luck, 10% consistency and 50% Alonso today. The guy was on fire today, but it did require a *big* slice of luck to get that far up.

[amouzouris]

what u are saying is luck can also be described as taking the opportunities when they present themselves....they way alonso got up to 3rd was certainly not a product of luck....also the way he got passed grosjean wasnt luck as well....and had vettel not retired who knows what might have happened..

[beelsebob]

[quote="amouzouris"]what u are saying is luck can also be described as taking the opportunities when they present themselves...[quote]
No no, that's the Alonso part of the equation.

The luck part of the equation is that Hamilton had a pit stop 9 seconds slower than he should have, and Vettel had his failure. Had these not occured, he would almost certainly finished 3rd.

[Vanja #66]

Alonso's win:
20% luck.
50% consistency.
30% Alonso.

Personally I'd go with
40% luck, 10% consistency and 50% Alonso today. The guy was on fire today, but it did require a *big* slice of luck to get that far up.

I'd like to rule out luck entirely. Why and how? Stay tuned...

We'll all agree that Alonso made it on his own (no luck there, pure skill) to 4th position. From then on, it's anyone's guess. I think he would have won even if there was no SC. Grosjean's E20 and Vettel's RB8 would have failed anyway. Their problems were down to their way of driving, Seb was a maniac, going 1s faster than Hamilton at the beginning, even though that's not the real difference between the pair. Romain was driving almost a half of his race behind someone, that's a killer in hot races. On the other hand, Webber and Kimi finished 4th and 2nd, and thay have same engines and cars, yet they didn't share the same fate. I'm putting Seb and Romain's problems and their sholuders, and I believe that they were going to retire even without the SC. That leaves Hamilton, Alonso is now 2nd (in theory of course).

Personally, I'd say that incident with the jack in McLaren's box is due to pressure and chaos brought by all-of-a-sudden need to pit. So, it's logical to think that the difference between Lewis and Alonso would have been around 4s (as it was on the end of 2nd stint) on start of third stint. 5 fastest laps by Alonso when he was leading Grosjean allow me to believe that he would have cut the difference to Hamilton to 1s - enough for DRS. From then on it would take him at least 3 laps to overtake him, or at least he could wait for Lewis' tires to go off. It would have happened because it did happen.

Sounds arrogant, but that's the way I see it, and there are many facts that make it plausible...

[beelsebob]

Alonso's win:
20% luck.
50% consistency.
30% Alonso.

Personally I'd go with
40% luck, 10% consistency and 50% Alonso today. The guy was on fire today, but it did require a *big* slice of luck to get that far up.

I'd like to rule out luck entirely. Why and how? Stay tuned...

We'll all agree that Alonso made it on his own (no luck there, pure skill) to 4th position. From then on, it's anyone's guess. I think he would have won even if there was no SC. Grosjean's E20 and Vettel's RB8 would have failed anyway. Their problems were down to their way of driving, Seb was a maniac, going 1s faster than Hamilton at the beginning, even though that's not the real difference between the pair. Romain was driving almost a half of his race behind someone, that's a killer in hot races. On the other hand, Webber and Kimi finished 4th and 2nd, and thay have same engines and cars, yet they didn't share the same fate. I'm putting Seb and Romain's problems and their sholuders, and I believe that they were going to retire even without the SC. That leaves Hamilton, Alonso is now 2nd (in theory of course).

Personally, I'd say that incident with the jack in McLaren's box is due to pressure and chaos brought by all-of-a-sudden need to pit. So, it's logical to think that the difference between Lewis and Alonso would have been around 4s (as it was on the end of 2nd stint) on start of third stint. 5 fastest laps by Alonso when he was leading Grosjean allow me to believe that he would have cut the difference to Hamilton to 1s - enough for DRS. From then on it would take him at least 3 laps to overtake him, or at least he could wait for Lewis' tires to go off. It would have happened because it did happen.

Sounds arrogant, but that's the way I see it, and there are many facts that make it plausible...

Not bad luck for Vettel is not the same thing as not good luck for Alonso. Vettel may well have caused the failure, that doesn't mean Alonso wasn't lucky that it happened.

[Vanja #66]

Not bad luck for Vettel is not the same thing as not good luck for Alonso. Vettel may well have caused the failure, that doesn't mean Alonso wasn't lucky that it happened.

If your opponent's unforced error is now your luck, that's OK...

[beelsebob]

Not bad luck for Vettel is not the same thing as not good luck for Alonso. Vettel may well have caused the failure, that doesn't mean Alonso wasn't lucky that it happened.

If your opponent's unforced error is now your luck, that's OK...

If you start 24th, and the other 23 drivers all drive straight on at the first turn... is that lucky? Sure is! Anything that's out of your control, and is of benefit to you is in my book lucky.

[amouzouris]

luck or no luck ALONSO won...get over it!

[Vanja #66]

If you start 24th, and the other 23 drivers all drive straight on at the first turn... is that lucky? Sure is! Anything that's out of your control, and is of benefit to you is in my book lucky.

No, it's not if they haven't suffered a problem (any kind of it) that has nothing to do with themselves [causing it]. Anyway, no point in discussing this further, clearly we have different basic points of view on the subject.

[beelsebob]

luck or no luck ALONSO won...get over it!

Did anyone say anything that suggested there was any getting over to do?

[amouzouris]

luck or no luck ALONSO won...get over it!

Did anyone say anything that suggested there was any getting over to do?

i am sorry..it wasn't necessarily targeted to you beelsebob! your opinion is highly respected by me.... it was targeted for the haters who are going to be going on and on about it!

[beelsebob]

luck or no luck ALONSO won...get over it!

Did anyone say anything that suggested there was any getting over to do?

i am sorry..it wasn't necessarily targeted to you beelsebob! your opinion is highly respected by me.... it was targeted for the haters who are going to be going on and on about it!

Well... Bob's hint for the day is... if you don't want the haters to get all up and in your face, don't get up and in their face – don't say things like "ALONSO won... get over it!" and people won't feel like they have to justify that their most-awesome-driver-ever is better.

[MBilcke]

Can someone confirm that a Ferrari teammember told Bernie that Alonso f*cked up in quali, and could have been in P2 ...
and that Massa told Bernie that Ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately. I heard these things on Belgian television, but could not find it here immediately ...

[radosav]

Can someone confirm that a Ferrari teammember told Bernie that Alonso f*cked up in quali, and could have been in P2 ...
and that Massa told Bernie that Ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately. I heard these things on Belgian television, but could not find it here immediately ...

well those two news negate each other. how can they say that alonso could be in P2 and then say ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately?

[MBilcke]

Can someone confirm that a Ferrari teammember told Bernie that Alonso f*cked up in quali, and could have been in P2 ...
and that Massa told Bernie that Ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately. I heard these things on Belgian television, but could not find it here immediately ...

well those two news negate each other. how can they say that alonso could be in P2 and then say ferrari has not improved as much as been told lately?

Bernie would have thought so too I suppose. Massa trying to save his face?