Mclaren Mercedes 2014

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CjC
CjC
11
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Japanese are natoriously honest, they won't cheat or bend the rules to gain an advantage.

Antony Davidson said on the sky commentary during Bahrain that Honda fell behind the other manufacturers in the V8 era engine freeze because the other manufacturers brought engine developments during the freeze claiming to improve costs or reliability but ultimately it was to improver performance and Anthony said that Honda was to honest to do the same.

If they still have the same ethos about engine development during the current engine freeze it could be a nightmare for mclaren.
Just a fan's point of view

akshat21
akshat21
2
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 23:23

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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CjC wrote:Japanese are natoriously honest, they won't cheat or bend the rules to gain an advantage.

Antony Davidson said on the sky commentary during Bahrain that Honda fell behind the other manufacturers in the V8 era engine freeze because the other manufacturers brought engine developments during the freeze claiming to improve costs or reliability but ultimately it was to improver performance and Anthony said that Honda was to honest to do the same.

If they still have the same ethos about engine development during the current engine freeze it could be a nightmare for mclaren.
Honda left the sport because they weren't winning, despite having one of the biggest budgets around. That is the plain and simple fact. Another team that left because they weren't winning was BMW. Toyota did the same thing.

For any company to pour in Hundreds of Millions of Dollars and not have anything for show for it except a few podiums is not worth it.

Secondly, while I agree Japanese are notoriously honest, Honda also didn't miss any tricks to win. (Case in point, running their cars underweight in San Marino in 2005).

As for the current situation at McLaren, I truly believe that Ron Dennis will bring back the ruthlessness that McLaren was famed for (be it politicking or winning at all costs). While merc will withhold information from McLaren for the duration of this year, what they can't withhold is the telemetry data. They cannot also not allow Mclaren to take a look at the engine from a performance point of view. They can run different maps on the engine to see what feedbacks they can get. They can test the limits of the current engine.

They can then take that data (which is McLaren's IP and not Mercedes's) and give it to Honda. Honda can then work backwards and create their engines. They also have the time to figure out how get the engine to to be at RPM limit (15000 whereas most engine right now are only using 12500 revs) without using too much fuel etc.

Merc, Renault and Ferrari would also be fine tuning their engines for next year. But the only positive I see is that while there will be some homologated parts for the three current engine manufacturers that they cannot change, Honda will be able to do what it pleases till the last day of testing. Will all this combined make Honda the most powerful engine next year is hard to say, but for sure, they will not be lacking in any department to the current Manufacturers.

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Unc1eM0nty
6
Joined: 01 Feb 2014, 15:18
Location: Yorkshire (Gods own county)

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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I wonder if it will have a split turbo, or maybe it's too late and they already past the point of no return on design & testing.

I don't think Honda will have any advantage, they can run all the dyno miles they like but they're still going to have to learn on the job just like everyone else did at testing.

ChrisM40
ChrisM40
1
Joined: 16 Mar 2014, 21:55

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Unc1eM0nty wrote:I wonder if it will have a split turbo, or maybe it's too late and they already past the point of no return on design & testing.

I don't think Honda will have any advantage, they can run all the dyno miles they like but they're still going to have to learn on the job just like everyone else did at testing.
Since they arent restricted in testing can they not test in a real race car? Could Mclaren have provided them with an older car to use?

akshat21
akshat21
2
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 23:23

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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They can just stick it in the LMP project.

ChrisM40
ChrisM40
1
Joined: 16 Mar 2014, 21:55

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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I suppose any car that could simulate packaging issues would do. It doesnt have to be a race competitive car.

munudeges
munudeges
-14
Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Given that McLaren are running Mercedes engines then this chassis must be exceptionally bad.

CjC
CjC
11
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Dan fallows isn't going to mclaren.

I think he signed for mclaren before prodromou did and more importantly with Martin whitmarsh.
According to Christian Horner, dan fallows said that the situation at mclaren has changed, what can red bull do for me now?
Just a fan's point of view

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Felipe 92
-1
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 15:22

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Engineers who designed MP4-29 should be tied to the car and thrown in the MTC lake along with M. Whitmarsh. Worst Mercedes powered team for second GP in the row. Half through last season they switched resources to 2014 car and developed it so awfully good that they are now racing against Caterham. So much money and resources thrown away (hope they will prove me wrong later in the season).

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/36982/ ... 0-milioni-

That's shocking :shock: :o Mclaren doesn't have an official sponsor, the new bites put on the car doesn't work, and they gave Whitmarsh 10.000.000 dollars for leaving Mclaren and keep his mouth closed. Very, very dissapointed. Ron should have let hip speak whatever he want, and not waste the money on him. :(

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bauc
33
Joined: 19 Jun 2013, 10:03
Location: Skopje, Macedonia

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Pretty much disappointed from the team and the car, I was so optimistic before the season and after the first race as well, but now I can see Mclaren going back and back in the last 3 races...I'm still hoping for better days but a win in 2014....well they will need something extraordinary to pull that one trough.
Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
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ChrisM40
ChrisM40
1
Joined: 16 Mar 2014, 21:55

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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CjC wrote:Dan fallows isn't going to mclaren.

I think he signed for mclaren before prodromou did and more importantly with Martin whitmarsh.
According to Christian Horner, dan fallows said that the situation at mclaren has changed, what can red bull do for me now?
I suspect that in the end he will go to RB, but since McLaren have a contract they might be able to force him to take gardening leave for 6 months.

akshat21
akshat21
2
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 23:23

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Or get Peter start early.

CjC
CjC
11
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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akshat21 wrote:Or get Peter start early.
That has to be top of the list
Just a fan's point of view

Edax
Edax
47
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 22:47

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Felipe 92 wrote:Engineers who designed MP4-29 should be tied to the car and thrown in the MTC lake along with M. Whitmarsh. Worst Mercedes powered team for second GP in the row. Half through last season they switched resources to 2014 car and developed it so awfully good that they are now racing against Caterham. So much money and resources thrown away (hope they will prove me wrong later in the season).
I don't think you should be so harsh on the engineers. IMO Mclaren went for the "flight forward" with the butterfly suspension. While I'm not sure what the butterfly suspension can deliver in terms of performance.It does make life complicated because, it dictates a lot of elements of the overall design (such as airo or (rear) suspension). That makes it an inherently risky design strategy.

+ It is impossible to oversee all risks in an evolutionary design (which usually is part of their appeal).
+ Changing parts in this particular design is very difficult, since functions are more intertwined than in any other design.
+ More importantly you loose the ability to learn from other teams. I think Barcelona will bring a lot of Mercedes and Red Bull inspired tweaks on other cars. These would not work on the McLaren since the concept is completely different.

In other words this was an all or nothing attempt. Either they would come out flying or they would be stuck for the rest of the year. Best scenario would be that they get the concept working with some simple tweaks, but I think the chances for that are getting slimmer.

In any way, going for this path is a management descision not an engineering one.