Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2014

[Juzh]

That's called allocation. The mgu-k is only to have an output of 4MJ; you need to spread that in an optimized way. I presume at 330kph the k power will be offset by the drag. I'm pretty sure Renault and Ferrari do the same thing.

Renault doesn't. Not to the same degree. That doesn't make it better though, as they're left far behind by the time they start to regain with top end. Indication of weaker K output, but more consistent. Probably a result of them being unable to achieve higher outputs reliably, or at all. And even that one can not be compared apples to apples as on both power heavy circuits RB ran with no wings to speak of.
That's assuming ICE is more or less equal in performance.

Ferrari is a sh1tbox in another direction. It's peak power can probably match merc, but can only do so for a very short straight before running out of K or something. Their normal low end accel is on par with renault at full pelt, while in "K1"as they call it, they're pretty much in the same league as merc. That's what I gathered from a whole season worth of onboards.

I believe that there's a deficit, I don't believe the deficit is 75bhp which translated in over a second a lap.

We've been over this.
In 2013 in spa on kemmel full kers without DRS equalled to ~10kmh benefit. Which is pretty much the difference we've had this year on most occasions between merc and RB in speed traps (Yes, RB only, don't start with that TR is quicker BS).

However for overtaking you probably want to have the extra power above the normal cut off point. Is it possible to reach 362kph?

Looked like ric ran the same power setting all the time in his monza onboard. Which was about the same speed as merc and williams on charging laps. With half the wing (!). Why do people forget or try to make it irrelevant all the time?

Horner is incorrect to say they have 75bhp deficit, since the biggest issue is the harvesting. Going from a 750bhp PU to a 825bhp PU will not change a thing if they don't increase harvesting efficiency.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say? In quali everyone runs max power, and the deficit is loud and clear. Harvesting is another problem, because not only do you not have the maximum power merc has, but for a portion of the time you've got even less than that.

4MJ number is myth and irrelevant number. It literally doesn't make any difference.

[lio007]

Mario Illien in the RB-Box:
So obviously he is somehow involved in RBR / Renault.

[Kingshark]

Renault are certainly not 75 hp down on Mercedes, otherwise Toro Rosso wouldn't be regularly challenging McLaren.

However, even if this was the case, it's still not a valid excuse to why they've got trashed by Mercedes this season. In 2003, Renault had a very similar power deficiency (around 70 bph I believe) to the top engine (BMW), yet Renault were regularly able to take the fight to Ferrari and Williams far more often than RBR have taken the fight to the Mercs this season.

This chassis talk is getting tiresome btw. In the early flyaway races, I initially bought into the media hype that Red Bull had the best chassis and were only held back by the underpowered Renault PU. However, when Mercedes destroyed the field around Barcelona, and then won easily around Monaco, I began to change my mind.

[Cold Fussion]

Perhaps, but you have to consider that how much power you have translates into how much down force you can run before you turn into a sitting duck on the straights. Red Bull have been running very low amounts of wing for most of the year in order to cope with their power deficit. I agree that the Red Bull chassis is over hyped and it's hard to believe that even with Mercedes power levels they would be much better like some claim.

[prince]

I presented some interesting statistics in the following link and had few questions on my mind when the 2014 season was about to begin and at the end of the season, I have found some answers.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 30#p490730

Did I jinxed then?

[Moose]

Perhaps, but you have to consider that how much power you have translates into how much down force you can run before you turn into a sitting duck on the straights. Red Bull have been running very low amounts of wing for most of the year in order to cope with their power deficit. I agree that the Red Bull chassis is over hyped and it's hard to believe that even with Mercedes power levels they would be much better like some claim.

No. The cube root of power does. That is, more power does very little for how much extra wing you can run. For me, the difference is clear. The merc allows for substantially tighter packaging in a whole bunch of ways. It's smaller (exhausts), it runs leaner (smaller fuel tank), it runs cooler, it requires less pipe work to connect everything up.

[rayden]

Aye, It's not just power but efficiency that the merc has over the renault, they can run with less fuel/use higher engine modes more often.

I have no doubt at all that if the RB had the merc donk & it was integrated properly, RIC would be celebrating his 1st WDC at the moment.

[giantfan10]

Aye, It's not just power but efficiency that the merc has over the renault, they can run with less fuel/use higher engine modes more often.

I have no doubt at all that if the RB had the merc donk & it was integrated properly, RIC would be celebrating his 1st WDC at the moment.

what everybody seems to want to ignore when debating chassis is that merc with the highest power output on the grid could also comfortably run much more downforce than any other car and still maintain a top speed advantage
that does not mean they necessarily have a better chassis.

[SiLo]

Giving them an extra 80HP would not have made this car last enough to challenge Mercedes this year. It would have been closer, but they still wouldn't have won the championship.

[Juzh]

Giving them an extra 80HP would not have made this car last enough to challenge Mercedes this year. It would have been closer, but they still wouldn't have won the championship.

Can't know for sure. Both ways.

[Blackout]

You seem to forget Juzh that the Merc and the Reault have a totaly different architecture... and the architecture alone explains 90% of the problem IMO.
IMO, even if Renault produced the perfect classic-architecture-F1-hybrid-V6-turbo, the best of the universe, this PU would still generate less total power than the Merc, weight a bit more, need more cooling, take more place in the car, generate more drag, f*** up the weight distribution a bit more etc.
Yes all PU have max electric power in qualy, but I bet the Renault H consumes a relatively big* part of that energy fighting turbo lag. *definitely bigger than the Merc. That's one of the reasons.
And we dont know how Horner did calculate that deficit. Maybe he only used top speeds...

[Jano11]

You seem to forget Juzh that the Merc and the Reault have a totaly different architecture... and the architecture alone explains 90% of the problem IMO.
IMO, even if Renault produced the perfect classic-architecture-F1-hybrid-V6-turbo, the best of the universe, this PU would still generate less total power than the Merc, weight a bit more, need more cooling, take more place in the car, generate more drag, f*** up the weight distribution a bit more etc.
Yes all PU have max electric power in qualy, but I bet the Renault H consumes a relatively big* part of that energy fighting turbo lag. *definitely bigger than the Merc. That's one of the reasons.
And we dont know how Horner did calculate that deficit. Maybe he only used top speeds...

Horner didn't calculate anything, it's not his job to do that.
And if Renault would have produced the best v6 hybrid turbo in the universe then it wouldn't need a 'big' part of the energy to fight turbo lag, because the turbo would be part of that perfect v6-hybrid turbo.
Just sayin'

[Blackout]

I said the ''perfect classic-architecture-F1-hybrid-V6-turbo''

[NizZaF1]

First time post, hopefully the thread is appropriate.

Looks like Red Bull lost all of his silver cups:

http://sportbild.bild.de/formel-1/2014/ ... sport.html

Die Polizei traute am Samstagmorgen ihren Augen nicht. Die gläserne Eingangshalle der Red-Bull-Fabrik in Milton Keynes war verwüstet als hätte eine Bombe eingeschlagen.
Das Ex-Team von Sebastian Vettel wurde Opfer eines dreisten und spektakulären Einbruchs. Circa zehn vermummte Männer rasten geplant mit drei Autos in die Eingangshalle der Formel-1-Fabrik in der Nähe von Northampton.
Dann räumten sie im Blitztempo 64 Silberpokale ab und verschwanden wieder. Noch am Morgen war Red-Bull-Motorsportchef Helmut Marko geschockt.
Marko zu SPORT BILD: „Zum Glück war noch keine Empfangsdame bei der Arbeit. Ein Sicherheitsbeamter befand sich zum Zeitpunkt des r woanders im Gebäude. Wir vermuten, dass die Bande unsere Pokale jetzt einschmelzen will. Der Silberpreis ist momentan sehr hoch, verkaufen kann man die Unikate nicht. Dafür sind sie zu auffällig.“

TL;DR: A group of 10 people cracked with three cars into the lobby of the RBR factory. They took 64 silver cups and left. No one war hurt, the receptionist wasn't present and the security guy was somewhere else. Marko assumes they will melt down the cups due to the high price of silver.

[mikeerfol]

According to Bild 64 trophies were stolen from the Red Bull factory!
http://sportbild.bild.de/formel-1/2014/ ... sport.html