Mclaren Honda 2015

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Post Reply
max_speed
4
Joined: 29 Oct 2012, 04:33

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Thunders wrote:Very good race indeed. If not for the Qualifying this would have been a great weekend. No mechanical failures all Weekend right?

A well needed good Performance to go into the summer break with an upbeat feeling. =D> =D> =D>
yes , reliability over race and consistent pace was a big relief.

User avatar
ringo
225
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Wazari wrote:I think the most important result of today is that McLaren Honda got 140 laps of race data. It surprises me that Boullier says they are down 120 hp. I was trying to do the math and was trying to figure out where the deficiency is. The ICE is probably producing around 600 to 625 HP based on 1.6 L @ 15,000 RPM with about 3.5 bar of boost. Based on the fuel limit, I can't see them running more boost than that. The MGU-K unit has a limit of 50,000 RPM and 120 KW (161 HP) and max of 4MJ per lap. I figure that's about 30-35 seconds of max power per lap. So if Honda's PU is really 120 HP down, that means its MGU-K unit is producing only 30 KW. If that's truly the case, then McLaren Honda should be competitive with Mercedes and Ferrari once they solve the excessive heat issue generated by their MGU unit limiting their use power. That's of course assuming the chassis is also up to the task.
I think he must be saying they are 120hp down on average. It can't be 120hp peak. The engine must be really crappy if that was the case. So it may really be the ERS responsible. We've seen what happened with Kimi's car. How slow it goes around with MGUK.
For Sure!!

User avatar
DiogoBrand
73
Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

I believe 120HP was before Hungary, the interview was given before the race, and this weekend the car seemed a lot better on pace.

Soichiro
3
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:14

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Hi everyone,

I am new here. I've been following you for a while and decided to join in.

There are some tech guys here that might know the answer. This race has raised a question - to me at least - is it really only on Honda to do the homework (clearly they lack power)? This is not a high power demanding circuit and the top speed traps were there with the Renault powered cars (faster in some and slower in others - but se sre talking small differences 1-1.5 kph) although Renault isn't much better than Honda, the difference to Red Bulls was HUGE! At moments, by the end of the race RB was lapping 3+ sec. Faster than Alonso and also set the fastest time. Also in qualy they were 1.5sec faster - I believe that is something McLaren should take a look into as to me it seems McLaren isn't that great eather.

Maybe someone can give a better explanation. Thank you.

mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Is it rumoured that Honda will introduce an upgraded engine in Spa and Mclarenw will get a penalty on the grid?

User avatar
mclaren111
272
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

At SPA & Monza they will be slow anyway and therefore it is best to take the penalties there.

With new rule change the worst is the back of the grid after qualifying :cry:

j.yank
24
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 13:45

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Soichiro wrote:Hi everyone,

I am new here. I've been following you for a while and decided to join in.

There are some tech guys here that might know the answer. This race has raised a question - to me at least - is it really only on Honda to do the homework (clearly they lack power)? This is not a high power demanding circuit and the top speed traps were there with the Renault powered cars (faster in some and slower in others - but se sre talking small differences 1-1.5 kph) although Renault isn't much better than Honda, the difference to Red Bulls was HUGE! At moments, by the end of the race RB was lapping 3+ sec. Faster than Alonso and also set the fastest time. Also in qualy they were 1.5sec faster - I believe that is something McLaren should take a look into as to me it seems McLaren isn't that great eather.

Maybe someone can give a better explanation. Thank you.
Specifically for this circuit the downforce is more important than the power. I guess that Ferrari, RedBull and Mercedes were running with more downforce than the client teams because the client teams have drive train losses, and they try to compensate with lower downforces. On circuits with more and long straights this is reasonable but when you are on slow circuit this is not good. McLarren have lowest available power but obviously they have good balance and low car frontal area that makes sense to run with higher downforce to compensate the lack of power. On Hungaroring and Monaco this works, on other circuits they are helpless. About yesterday I guess that RedBull had a little bit more power, too. Mercedes did a mess with tires and the strategy.

max_speed
4
Joined: 29 Oct 2012, 04:33

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

mclaren_mircea wrote:Is it rumoured that Honda will introduce an upgraded engine in Spa and Mclarenw will get a penalty on the grid?
i still don't understand why they took free engine this gp. they should have used that free engine as "upgraded one" and could have continued with same engine for which they took penalty. is there any rule that prevent them from doing so. by using free engine "as upgraded" they could have avoided penalty in spa.

Soichiro
3
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:14

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Thanks for the reply. I understand that, but still the difference between RB and McLaren was very big. RB was in the league of Mercedes while McLaren was nowhere near them both. I would say that aero should have an impact (a big obe) on that difference too.

From watching the times (although I am no expert and is just my opinion) I would say that Mercs and RB still have better aero/chasis. McLaren could be sligthly better than Ferrari and Torro Rosso - others were worse from my opinion. The rest is on Honda to deliver -60 hp would provably do some 'magic' :). For starter.

damager21
17
Joined: 04 Jan 2015, 09:35

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

I am a bit bemused on the actual gap between Mercedes and McLaren. It has repeatedly been mentioned that McLaren is possibly using only 50% of its ERS every lap which means about 80 bhp of the possible 160 bhp which should be available.

Yet after qualifying session, Jenson mentioned that loosing ERS during Q1 costed him about 0.4 secs. Even if McLaren could use entire 160 bhp instead of 80 bhp, going by Jenson's statement, that would have amounted to only 0.8 secs.

In another interview, Eric mentioned that Honda is 120 bhp down on power as compared to Mercedes. If 80 bhp of this 120 bhp is because of ERS then 40 bhp is what Honda is down due to ICE, TC, etc.

After adding all this, it looks like 120 bhp will amount to 1.2 secs. But the fact is that McLaren is about 2.5 secs slower than Mercedes. So where are they loosing balance 1.3 secs?

Also, in some of the posts it is mentioned that Kimi was loosing 2 secs per lap because of his ERS problem during the race. But according to Jensons statement loosing ERS would amount to 0.8 secs per lap.

Can someone please simplify this?

Soichiro
3
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:14

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

max_speed wrote:
mclaren_mircea wrote:Is it rumoured that Honda will introduce an upgraded engine in Spa and Mclarenw will get a penalty on the grid?
i still don't understand why they took free engine this gp. they should have used that free engine as "upgraded one" and could have continued with same engine for which they took penalty. is there any rule that prevent them from doing so. by using free engine "as upgraded" they could have avoided penalty in spa.
From the news read I would say they wanted to get as good a result as they could from the package - and they did. They assumed this track would be their best chance and it probably was. Also this enabled them to have as clean running as possible and get data for further development. In Spa - even with the engine upgrades they don't know if they will be fast enough and they cannot exclude reliability problems due to changes so I guess the end result doesn't really matter anyway.

User avatar
bauc
33
Joined: 19 Jun 2013, 10:03
Location: Skopje, Macedonia
Contact:

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

@damager21 - you seem to forget many other factors are at play here such as: Driveability, Mapping, Fuel ect...overall all other 3 engine manufactures have much better optimization of their PU (even Reno) compared to Honda thanks to the 1 year racing advantage, therefore in theory you can have the same HP output but still be slower on the race track due to unoptimized PU& Chassis. Seeing what we saw from Mclaren Honda in the first half of the season, their full focus was on reliability since they hardly finished any race and therefore both PU & Chassis are not yet optimized to its full potential. Once all problems with reliability are solved, then maybe we will see a much improved overall performance by Mclaren Honda.
Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkjCv ... 6rVRgKASwg

User avatar
mclaren111
272
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Yasuhisa Arai:
“The settings on both the cars and the power units were solid, so this race was important for us in order to prove their worth.
Still on a very steep learning curve :!: 8-[

User avatar
mclaren111
272
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

Nice Picture:

Image

GoranF1
155
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 12:53
Location: Zagreb,Croatia
Contact:

Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

Post

ringo wrote:
Wazari wrote:I think the most important result of today is that McLaren Honda got 140 laps of race data. It surprises me that Boullier says they are down 120 hp. I was trying to do the math and was trying to figure out where the deficiency is. The ICE is probably producing around 600 to 625 HP based on 1.6 L @ 15,000 RPM with about 3.5 bar of boost. Based on the fuel limit, I can't see them running more boost than that. The MGU-K unit has a limit of 50,000 RPM and 120 KW (161 HP) and max of 4MJ per lap. I figure that's about 30-35 seconds of max power per lap. So if Honda's PU is really 120 HP down, that means its MGU-K unit is producing only 30 KW. If that's truly the case, then McLaren Honda should be competitive with Mercedes and Ferrari once they solve the excessive heat issue generated by their MGU unit limiting their use power. That's of course assuming the chassis is also up to the task.
I think he must be saying they are 120hp down on average. It can't be 120hp peak. The engine must be really crappy if that was the case. So it may really be the ERS responsible. We've seen what happened with Kimi's car. How slow it goes around with MGUK.
not confirmed but rumor is biggest problem is MGU-K from the start of testing untill now.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

Post Reply