Mclaren Honda 2015

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Thunder
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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https://twitter.com/F1/status/652095086197669888

=D> =D>

Won't stop the rumours but it's nice to see him officially state it.
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FoxHound
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Andres125sx wrote:
mrluke wrote:Mclaren Honda average gap from fastest qualy time to fastest Mclaren driver over whole season

2013: 1.359s
2014: 1.590s
2015: 2.786s

At the very most the deficit is 1.4s aero and 1.4s Honda PU.
Same as if I say....

At the very most the deficit is 1.4s PU and 1.4 s because of alignment of Mars and Pluto :mrgreen:


Specially when McLaren is using new cars (new aero) each season and three different PU/engines in those three seasons, so you simply can´t know how much difference is related to each component

Add to that even Arai admits most of the deficit is their own fault and your statement is complete nosense
mrluke wrote:Mclaren should be taking responsibility for a minimum 50% blame for their poor performance rather than trying to say they have the best chassis on the grid.
They never said anything like that, please stop inventing to bash McLaren. Most similar thing they said is their chasis is fourth best on the grid after Mercedes, Red Bull and Toro Rosso. Fourth best for a team like McLaren is not something to be too proud if you ask me, but even so it obviously is better than the PU wich is the last in the grid

But that does not explain the 2013 deficit to Mercedes using V8's in a frozen formula.

It's a constant. So we can eliminate the engine as a factor. It's also an engine they had 7 years experience with, so integration cooling etc were all known quantities.
Therefore we can say in stable rules, McLaren fell well behind the factory backed Mercedes AMG team.

If we then take this form into 2014, McLaren 3rd of 4 Mercedes powered teams and a mere 26 points ahead of Force India.
You could argue the lubrication was not the same, which apparently gave a deficit of around 20bhp to the other customer teams.

But the gap cannot solely be explained by the PU. There has to be some acknowledgement that the chassis and aero is not as competitive as Mclaren themselves are making out. I wouldn't hazard to guess figures as these are track dependant.

And if we look at Dennis' assessment that Mclaren would never win titles as a customer team, well, they won 3 drivers titles and 1 constructors title in a 23 year association with Merc.
Considering the support and money they had from Merc, is this a satisfactory return?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Thunders wrote:Only Alonso gets the updated Engine as Honda couldn't make enough Parts for 2 Engines and Fernandos Engine has more miles than Jensons.

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.p ... so-penalty
Hmm
""The logical step is to change the compressor area, but because of the layout that's not going to happen. We are still looking to improve the internal combustion side of the engine, but without changing the layout."
I take it this upgrade or any upgrades in 2015 for that matter is centered around improving combustion. The major layout changes will be for 2016. Note the "Compressor area" he is refering to is everything between the V of the engine not just the compressor itself. And he says it is "not going to happen" he means not going to happen in 2015 but it WILL happen for 2016.
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ChrisF1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Foxhound, you're ignoring that the team has undergone changes over the last few years. PP coming in, Ron Dennis more involved, Whitmarsh and Sam Michael removed.

To suggest the team is still on the same spiral would be wrong when you think that the changes made could actually be worth 2-3 tenths in the positive or negative direction.

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FoxHound
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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ChrisF1 wrote:Foxhound, you're ignoring that the team has undergone changes over the last few years. PP coming in, Ron Dennis more involved, Whitmarsh and Sam Michael removed.

To suggest the team is still on the same spiral would be wrong when you think that the changes made could actually be worth 2-3 tenths in the positive or negative direction.
I think the bigger loss was Paddy Lowe to Mercedes.
Not only this, but I think there was a bit of a brain drain from McLaren to Mercedes in 2012, which explains both their 2013 form onwards.
My suggestion is not that the team is in a spiral, I'm commenting that McLaren themselves are nowhere near as good as they think they are...Yet.
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Andres125sx
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Agree on that, I never said the whole deficit is due to the PU, but that´s very different to stating aero deficit is bigger than PU deficit


Anycase useless discussion, we´ll never know, it´s just imposible to draw any conclusion without inside data

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nanocustic
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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FoxHound wrote:
ChrisF1 wrote:Foxhound, you're ignoring that the team has undergone changes over the last few years. PP coming in, Ron Dennis more involved, Whitmarsh and Sam Michael removed.

To suggest the team is still on the same spiral would be wrong when you think that the changes made could actually be worth 2-3 tenths in the positive or negative direction.
I think the bigger loss was Paddy Lowe to Mercedes.
Not only this, but I think there was a bit of a brain drain from McLaren to Mercedes in 2012, which explains both their 2013 form onwards.
My suggestion is not that the team is in a spiral, I'm commenting that McLaren themselves are nowhere near as good as they think they are...Yet.
I have to agree with this partially. At some point Mercedes was hiring up everyone :D
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diffuser
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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bauc wrote:@Thunders - I think this was not the initial plan, but since the re-design of the turbo can be now done without any tokens spent during the winter period, I guess this has put some other options in motion.
I don't understand why 're-design of the turbo can be now done without any tokens spent during the winter period'?

Gaz.
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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diffuser wrote:
bauc wrote:@Thunders - I think this was not the initial plan, but since the re-design of the turbo can be now done without any tokens spent during the winter period, I guess this has put some other options in motion.
I don't understand why 're-design of the turbo can be now done without any tokens spent during the winter period'?
I was under the impression the token system was only valid for 2015 then they revert to the planed % of changes allowed until holomogation on 28th February 2016 when they are locked down until after the final event.
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FW17
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Are Pat Fry and Nikolas Tombazis back at McLaren?

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henry
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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diffuser wrote:
bauc wrote:@Thunders - I think this was not the initial plan, but since the re-design of the turbo can be now done without any tokens spent during the winter period, I guess this has put some other options in motion.
I don't understand why 're-design of the turbo can be now done without any tokens spent during the winter period'?
Next year the wastegate must have an outlet separate from the turbine. Apparently this will be noisier.

As far as I can tell Honda's wastegate(s) is integral with the turbine and exit through the main exhaust. So they will forced to redesign by a rule change and hence token free.
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max_speed
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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WilliamsF1 wrote:Are Pat Fry and Nikolas Tombazis back at McLaren?
is it the case ?. i did not see any news on this. i will welcome the arrival of Tombazis , he is good engineer and can help honda at many fronts but Pat fry , i will prefer to see him Retired , he is an average guy.

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Thunder
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Fernandos new Engine Sounds different. More like the Ferrari / Merc. The Tone is higher. The 'stuttering' under Acceleration is still there but it's less than before. You knew Button was on the Track even if he wasn't shown. At the beginning of FP1 when the Sky commentator said there was another Car on the Track is said "doesn't Sound like a Honda" and then the Camera switched to Show Fernando...
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GoranF1
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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Alonso said on team radio engine is now a benchmark of all GP2 engines! :D :D :D
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ME4ME
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Re: Mclaren Honda 2015

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http://www.motorsport.com/gp2/news/soch ... le-record/

Such a shame he didn't get the Mclaren drive. Still hoping he get's into F1, if not it would be such a waste of talent :(

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