Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Richard wrote:Woah... I'm not sure the #askNico was such a great idea. Rosberg seems to be rather worked up in these clips. You don't need to speak German to understand his message in the final clip.
Richard, do you speak German? I'm only asking because I thought he seemed quite under control in that particular clip and am wondering if the impression is perhaps because he is speaking German which sounds perhaps a bit different (more edgier?) than an identical explenation in English would. The noisy background doesn't help either - you tend to speak louder (and perhaps outside ones comfort zone) to balance out the noise around you which might add to the impression that he seems a bit agitated.

My thoughts on Rosbergs answers is that he's answer isn't exactly accurate. He maintains that he tried to overtake Lewis in the first stint at which point he realized that he wore out his tyres quicker, hence why in the 2nd stint, he didn't attempt it again. A few points stick out:

1.) On the first stint, the car was heavier, so any maneuvers or agressive driving would have a bigger effect than in the 2nd stint on a lighter car.

2.) On the first stint, he never got himself close to a realistic overtaking attempt; He failed to get within a second, which would have given him a bigger (pace) advantage by using the DRS zones to close the gap even further, if not to pass his team-mate.

3.) The fact that he himself sais he tried to get closer in the first stint but failed, results in the logical conclusion that Lewis must have had just enough pace to keep himself outside that 1 second gap. Or enough, that Nico, who was running in dirty air, couldn't get closer. The point; Nico didn't have enough pace advantage as he claims in the first place.

4.) Lastly, attempting a further pass in stint 2 might have made him more vulnerable towards Vettel (if it hadn't worked out and he were to destroy his tyres), but attempting it might have put more pressure on Lewis into perhaps making a mistake. He didn't try, he'll never know. If anything, the logic of *not* trying shows that perhaps at that point, he had given up trying to challenge him, because he didn't believe it would actually yield any success.

I don't think he lost out much. It was only 7 points and he brought home his potential best. By not driving like a maniac behind Lewis, he also ensured that his car might be in better shape come next races. A DNF can quickly change the "mental" balance between these two. Lets not forget that come Monaco, Lewis was leading by 3 points and that Monaco race changed a lot. If Lewis suffers another DNF for whatever reason in one of the next 2 races, he could find himself behind Nico again, which would put an entirely different spin to this battle. It's still early.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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WaikeCU
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 33001.html

Mercedes and Hamilton have set a new pitstop record. During his first stop, the pitstop only took 1,83s. :shock:

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Phil wrote:
Richard wrote:Woah... I'm not sure the #askNico was such a great idea. Rosberg seems to be rather worked up in these clips. You don't need to speak German to understand his message in the final clip.
Richard, do you speak German? I'm only asking because I thought he seemed quite under control in that particular clip and am wondering if the impression is perhaps because he is speaking German which sounds perhaps a bit different (more edgier?) than an identical explenation in English would. The noisy background doesn't help either - you tend to speak louder (and perhaps outside ones comfort zone) to balance out the noise around you which might add to the impression that he seems a bit agitated.

My thoughts on Rosbergs answers is that he's answer isn't exactly accurate. He maintains that he tried to overtake Lewis in the first stint at which point he realized that he wore out his tyres quicker, hence why in the 2nd stint, he didn't attempt it again. A few points stick out:

1.) On the first stint, the car was heavier, so any maneuvers or agressive driving would have a bigger effect than in the 2nd stint on a lighter car.

2.) On the first stint, he never got himself close to a realistic overtaking attempt; He failed to get within a second, which would have given him a bigger (pace) advantage by using the DRS zones to close the gap even further, if not to pass his team-mate.

3.) The fact that he himself sais he tried to get closer in the first stint but failed, results in the logical conclusion that Lewis must have had just enough pace to keep himself outside that 1 second gap. Or enough, that Nico, who was running in dirty air, couldn't get closer. The point; Nico didn't have enough pace advantage as he claims in the first place.

4.) Lastly, attempting a further pass in stint 2 might have made him more vulnerable towards Vettel (if it hadn't worked out and he were to destroy his tyres), but attempting it might have put more pressure on Lewis into perhaps making a mistake. He didn't try, he'll never know. If anything, the logic of *not* trying shows that perhaps at that point, he had given up trying to challenge him, because he didn't believe it would actually yield any success.

I don't think he lost out much. It was only 7 points and he brought home his potential best. By not driving like a maniac behind Lewis, he also ensured that his car might be in better shape come next races. A DNF can quickly change the "mental" balance between these two. Lets not forget that come Monaco, Lewis was leading by 3 points and that Monaco race changed a lot. If Lewis suffers another DNF for whatever reason in one of the next 2 races, he could find himself behind Nico again, which would put an entirely different spin to this battle. It's still early.
I think it's just getting to him, The answers make it sound like he was racing to become second, not busy with beating Hamilton but scared of Vettel. Somewhere last season, after Lewis his unlucky GP's, while Rosberg was leading the championship, Lewis beaten him on track over and over again. He probably worked all winter, training, saying to himself "I'm going to beat lewis", and then, season started and so far he didn't even had a chance. Lewis is not even driving at full speed, winning as slow as possible. In China, Lewis his pole was his first fast lap in Q3, the second run is usually faster, he didn't even needed that one. It's almost like punching someone who is already down.

What I do find odd, he keeps driving reasonably composed. You would expect that he would overdrive the car, crash because he goes too fast (bit like in Russia or Monza). Maybe he's already racing for second...

efuloni
efuloni
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Exactly. That's whats bothers me most. Is the lack of 'winning desire'. The championship just started, he is being hugely outperformed by Lewis, come on, man, at least TRY it. Put some pressure over him, show everyone what you're capable of. Nobody likes a driver who is 'ok' in being second, who doesnt try to win because is afraid of being third. #-o

That reminds me of that Senna's quote:
"You either commit yourself as a professional racing driver that's designed to win races or you come second or you come third or fifth and am not design to come third, fourth or fifth, I race to win"

And that's what irritates most in drivers like Barrichello, Webber and now, maybe, Rosberg. The champions commit themselves with the victory and nothing else. It's not rare that they rather DNF trying a win than just stay put in second or third position. Of course that there are situations and situations. No one puts at risk the title for a win, for example.

It's okay being second and dont even attack. Sometimes you just can't. The other guy had a better weekend, ok, it happens. But, in this case, be quiet. Use your defeat as a way of getting stronger and try again last week. I really think Rosberg lost respect from the fans, the team, Lewin and other with his interview. He did just like Webber. Started complaining about his team-mate. Soon he will be complaining about the team itself.

That makes me sad, cause I see Nico as the possible savior of the season. I dont think Vettel can really fight for title. But Nico can. Or could. That depends only of him.

That's it: I got really disapointed with what he said. And I was not the only one.

About losing respect, did you see the smile on Vettel's face when Hamilton answers Rosberg in post-race conference? It might be nothing, I know, but, I think the entire grid would agree with Lewis. "Oh, you're faster? So overtake-me, if you can. If can't, shut up and do your race, mate."

Nico RosWebber. :lol:

Here is the video. Check 1:40. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egZmnzc ... detailpage

windwaves
windwaves
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Joined: 03 May 2012, 22:11

Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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yes, the entire grid would agree with Lewis, unfortunately the fact is, that he stated the obvious while Ros stated to obviously ridiculous.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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I wonder how Toto's respect for Rosberg has changed after this.

We know Toto likes Nico and Nikki like Hamilton.

Toto wouldn't think twice to change the team rules to help Nico out, be it for good of the team or for Nico himself. I could understand Toto not wanting Lewis to gain any Political traction in the team so he has to do his best to keep Nico's stock a float inside the team.
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giantfan10
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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the only thing nico did wrong was answer that question at the after race press conference and now prolonging it with his question and answer session.
i'm willing to bet that his complaint is pretty standard for any F1 team on the grid after each race.....
i also get the point that he is making and im not a nico fan i think he is an average F1 driver.
there is a reason the pit wall told hamilton to pick up the pace....
Ferrari being competitive has sure took some of the shine off the mercedes F1 machine

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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tbh I would think that Merc are starting to get a little bit tired of him. The majority of problems within the team seem to stem from him doing/saying something first. (That's not me saying Lewis is always in the right, but it does seem Nico is usually the instigator).

Unfortunately with Merc being so dominant last year, where he was almost guaranteed first or second with no problem, it seemed to have given Nico a false sense of being a better driver than what he really is. I'm getting the feeling this year he is starting to realise that.

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iotar__
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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astracrazy wrote:tbh I would think that Merc are starting to get a little bit tired of him. The majority of problems within the team seem to stem from him doing/saying something first. (That's not me saying Lewis is always in the right, but it does seem Nico is usually the instigator).
Oh yes, "team" aka character assassination thread focused on Rosberg. The only thing that Merc can be annoyed about is that their lies and games are more public now so they can't pretend they don't exist. Examples from the real world and not someone's imagination: strategy in Malaysia, Hamilton's behaviour in China and of course late release in qualifying.

"Coaching": another subject that is attempted to become reality only by repeating it. Not uncommon in F1 alternative universes. How about instead of me disproving it you provide examples. So what kind of coaching that is absent now enabled Rosberg China 2012, Monaco 2013 wins, all the races and all the poles last season all the podiums before, It should be easy enough to provide cause - effect examples. If it's limited to 2014-.. rules - fine, even more interesting. Who else that is not competing with Hamilton suffers from it because I didn't hear a single word about it outside of this rivalry. Weird, isn't it? It's as if someone's making that up.

Just in case: no, "Coulthard/Brundle said it" is not enough. The purpose and implied conclusion is of course that someone who needs "coaching" is inferior. Use of word is not accidental, not radio transmissions about various subjects but "coaching". Of course no one is even touching with a stick the unquestionable fact that Hamilton is getting crucial, competitive advantage from fuel management, not out-braking, getting fast corners or chicanes better than opponent but fuel management. Explains nicely qualifying race pace difference last season, doesn't it?

garygph
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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I am not so bothered about what the detail in what this person or that peson ( Nico and Hamilton) said but much more interested in the motivation behind Nico's comments. This is not someone who is happy being second...he wants to win and it's burning his arse that he is not. Fantastic!! Thank goodness we have a driver in that team with that desire! TThank goodness he has not just decided to be happy being second..let him get the hell in and say stuff. So what! We are so quick to crucify on the slightest statements etc but the big picture is he has a massive challenge in Hamilton and he has not given up so we may see something more than a boring procession which could easily have happened...and still may. I am hoping to see team work out the window from now and Rosberg throwing some of that caution to the wind..he is going to have to as Hamilton is one helluva apponent.

skoop
skoop
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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i'm from germany and if anyone is interested i can translate the videos and try to describe which vibe he gives. (i usually don't watch these videos, that's why i can't tell you right now).
just let me know if you're interested

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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iotar__ wrote: Oh yes, "team" aka character assassination thread focused on Rosberg. The only thing that Merc can be annoyed about is that their lies and games are more public now so they can't pretend they don't exist. Examples from the real world and not someone's imagination: strategy in Malaysia, Hamilton's behaviour in China and of course late release in qualifying.
Yes, Merc has lied, played games and have stabbed Nico. Why doesn't Nico leave such a pathetic place? As in real world, no one except Nico, is responsible for the kind of situation he is in. No amount of bitching, complaining and cursing is going to help, from himself or from his supporters. If he can do something about it, he should do it otherwise he should move on. As far character assassination, he himself started it out of his frustration. Unlike in the past, today, a sports person need to have extreme awareness in front of media. Nico has been bitchy in front of media, whether it is last year of this. Sometimes his rants helps and sometimes it backfires. Last year in Monaco, everyone blasted Lewis for his over the top emotional behavior and statements. It was totally un-necessary for Nico to have started this conversation in press conference, which is backfiring him.
iotar__ wrote: "Coaching": another subject that is attempted to become reality only by repeating it. Not uncommon in F1 alternative universes. How about instead of me disproving it you provide examples. So what kind of coaching that is absent now enabled Rosberg China 2012, Monaco 2013 wins, all the races and all the poles last season all the podiums before, It should be easy enough to provide cause - effect examples. If it's limited to 2014-.. rules - fine, even more interesting. Who else that is not competing with Hamilton suffers from it because I didn't hear a single word about it outside of this rivalry. Weird, isn't it? It's as if someone's making that up.
Similar to how he has been projected as INTELLIGENT driver and "ENGINEERING MINDED DRIVER". People have the tendency to associate certain attributes to a person, whether in reality it is true or not like "LEWIS IS NOT AN INTELLIGENT DRIVER", "AGGRESSIVE AND HENCE WOULD NOT SURVIVE PIRELLI TYRES". Since last year Singapore, Nico's performance have gone down at a time when the radio coaching was banned. Whether it is co-incidental or real, only he knows, but for people that is how it is.
iotar__ wrote: Just in case: no, "Coulthard/Brundle said it" is not enough. The purpose and implied conclusion is of course that someone who needs "coaching" is inferior. Use of word is not accidental, not radio transmissions about various subjects but "coaching". Of course no one is even touching with a stick the unquestionable fact that Hamilton is getting crucial, competitive advantage from fuel management, not out-braking, getting fast corners or chicanes better than opponent but fuel management. Explains nicely qualifying race pace difference last season, doesn't it?
Results are the only parameter that shows if someone is inferior or not. So with that yard stick, 11 to 5 in races last year, supports their argument, whether the argument itself is right or wrong.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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GPR-A wrote:
iotar__ wrote: Oh yes, "team" aka character assassination thread focused on Rosberg. The only thing that Merc can be annoyed about is that their lies and games are more public now so they can't pretend they don't exist. Examples from the real world and not someone's imagination: strategy in Malaysia, Hamilton's behaviour in China and of course late release in qualifying.
Yes, Merc has lied, played games and have stabbed Nico. Why doesn't Nico leave such a pathetic place? As in real world, no one except Nico, is responsible for the kind of situation he is in. No amount of bitching, complaining and cursing is going to help, from himself or from his supporters. If he can do something about it, he should do it otherwise he should move on. As far character assassination, he himself started it out of his frustration. Unlike in the past, today, a sports person need to have extreme awareness in front of media. Nico has been bitchy in front of media, whether it is last year of this. Sometimes his rants helps and sometimes it backfires. Last year in Monaco, everyone blasted Lewis for his over the top emotional behavior and statements. It was totally un-necessary for Nico to have started this conversation in press conference, which is backfiring him.
iotar__ wrote: "Coaching": another subject that is attempted to become reality only by repeating it. Not uncommon in F1 alternative universes. How about instead of me disproving it you provide examples. So what kind of coaching that is absent now enabled Rosberg China 2012, Monaco 2013 wins, all the races and all the poles last season all the podiums before, It should be easy enough to provide cause - effect examples. If it's limited to 2014-.. rules - fine, even more interesting. Who else that is not competing with Hamilton suffers from it because I didn't hear a single word about it outside of this rivalry. Weird, isn't it? It's as if someone's making that up.
Similar to how he has been projected as INTELLIGENT driver and "ENGINEERING MINDED DRIVER". People have the tendency to associate certain attributes to a person, whether in reality it is true or not like "LEWIS IS NOT AN INTELLIGENT DRIVER", "AGGRESSIVE AND HENCE WOULD NOT SURVIVE PIRELLI TYRES". Since last year Singapore, Nico's performance have gone down at a time when the radio coaching was banned. Whether it is co-incidental or real, only he knows, but for people that is how it is.
iotar__ wrote: Just in case: no, "Coulthard/Brundle said it" is not enough. The purpose and implied conclusion is of course that someone who needs "coaching" is inferior. Use of word is not accidental, not radio transmissions about various subjects but "coaching". Of course no one is even touching with a stick the unquestionable fact that Hamilton is getting crucial, competitive advantage from fuel management, not out-braking, getting fast corners or chicanes better than opponent but fuel management. Explains nicely qualifying race pace difference last season, doesn't it?
Results are the only parameter that shows if someone is inferior or not. So with that yard stick, 11 to 5 in races last year, supports their argument, whether the argument itself is right or wrong.
With driver coaching, I could imagine a line from lewis: "Don't tell me how to drive, man", if the team would tell him mid race where there could be a gain, while Rosberg would ask for it (like he did two GP's ago)

They are just very different drivers in their approach to driving. Hamilton feels the car, feels the grip and takes it to the limit. Risky at times, pushing to hard sometimes when he's not in the best car (like in his McLaren days, the way he destroyed one in Monza in 2009...). The upside was very visible in Australia Qualifying, when the wind changed. He felt more grip and went faster.
Nico on the other hand is very deductive. He figures out all the best breaking points, where and how much grip there is and takes it to the limit. Very good to develop a car, always very fast, but you need a very predicable car for it. Inputs given into the steering and paddles (and aero) always have to the same output. A very good development driver.

But if you confront the both of them with the same problem: "go half a second faster", Lewis will get in his car, and attacks like there is no tomorrow (and prob crashes), while Rosberg will sit down with data and his engineer and find out where to find it. At the moment, he can't... thats frustrating him.

Richard
Richard
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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IMHO - This isn't a Rosberg thing, any driver lucky to land in a dominant car but ending up just behind his teammate is likely to get grumpy. We all recall Weber & Barrichello complaining about Vettel & Button. We could say the same for Alonso-Hamilton and Senna-Prost, they ended in tears too.

Hamilton has been criticised for complaining in previous years, I'm sure he'd be grumpy if he was in Rosberg's position.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Richard wrote:IMHO - This isn't a Rosberg thing, any driver lucky to land in a dominant car but ending up just behind his teammate is likely to get grumpy. We all recall Weber & Barrichello complaining about Vettel & Button. We could say the same for Alonso-Hamilton and Senna-Prost, they ended in tears too.

Hamilton has been criticised for complaining in previous years, I'm sure he'd be grumpy if he was in Rosberg's position.
Hamilton would never complain that his teammate is driving too slow ;)

It's not the fact that he's grumpy or complaining, but about what...