Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

[djos]

They weren't fast at the tests, not in Melbourne and not this weekend, so it's save to say they have a lot of work to do!! The Torro Rosso is faster, for now..

Qually shows that the RB11 driven by RIC had a half second speed advantage over the best Torro Rosso driven by VES - as I keep saying, we dont know what the RB11's true race pace is yet due to his car damage. I think we need a couple more races with RIC keeping out of trouble to get a clear picture.

He might have been better than JEV, but KYV seems way to accident prone and inconsistent to me - VES and SAI are doing an outstanding job in the TR which just makes RBR's performance look worse.

[FoxHound]

Djos

The problem I have with the wing being an excuse as a problem, is that it occurred early in the race.
It must have been so marginal that the team decided not to take the hit and change it.

If its been held as a reason why Ricciardo finished behind Torro Rosso, I also dont buy it.
The lead TR was 15 + seconds or so up the road from Ric.
Could be more but I dont have the data to hand.
15 seconds is the approximate hit you are going to take for changing a front wing while at a scheduled Pitstop.

Red Bull either should have changed it from their telemetry comparison, or it was deemed a 15 second hit too much.

Either way Torro Rosso is still ahead of Red Bull at this stage.

That really has to change soon, with all the resources Red Bull have in comparison to Torro Rosso.

[djos]

Djos

The problem I have with the wing being an excuse as a problem, is that it occurred early in the race.
It must have been so marginal that the team decided not to take the hit and change it.

If its been held as a reason why Ricciardo finished behind Torro Rosso, I also dont buy it.
The lead TR was 15 + seconds or so up the road from Ric.
Could be more but I dont have the data to hand.
15 seconds is the approximate hit you are going to take for changing a front wing while at a scheduled Pitstop.

Red Bull either should have changed it from their telemetry comparison, or it was deemed a 15 second hit too much.

Either way Torro Rosso is still ahead of Red Bull at this stage.

That really has to change soon, with all the resources Red Bull have in comparison to Torro Rosso.

It's certainly not the only thing, just look at all the factors:

[*] broken front wing from 1st corner incident
[*] poor strategy call (same as Merc) to pit early causing him to be stuck back in the field after the safety car
[*] brake dramas - both RB11's had majors issues with their new CI brakes - look at the dust they were expelling in the last 10+ laps, I was wondering if they were going to blow a disc.

So I think my point is reasonable, we dont know the true race pace of the RB11 yet and KYV is not a good bench mark imo. And yes, the point that TR have done a better job so far is completely valid, it doesn't however mean they have a faster chassis.

EDIT: Check out the front wheels on both cars compared to the rear:

[AnthonyG]

I couldn't tell one driver from another during that stage of the race.

[djos]

I couldn't tell one driver from another during that stage of the race.

It's easy, KYV has the yellow T-cam.

[TheRMVR]

I can't quite put my head around the fact that RedBull is behind (or on par) with Toro Rosso. How is it possible that a team that has been the absolute king in designing, manufacturing and producing a car that left the established crowd in dust is struggling so much? They go from the envy of the grid with a racewinning car to a joke in about half a year. The resources, the facilities, the talent are all present. Yet they get beaten by Toro freaking Rosso with two rookie drivers?? It boggles the mind.
Is this the effect of Newey slowly retreating? Is his genius worth that much to this team?
Is it the blow of Vettel leaving? Demotivation and desintegration of a team like when Schumi left Benetton?

Because as far as I know, these are the only two crucial employee changes the team have undergone in the past year.. Again it boggles the mind.

[AnthonyG]

I couldn't tell one driver from another during that stage of the race.

It's easy, KYV has the yellow T-cam.

On tv, that was hard to see. Here I can distinguish their helmets.
For the average F1 fan it's near impossible I think, even from a still picture.

[djos]

I couldn't tell one driver from another during that stage of the race.

It's easy, KYV has the yellow T-cam.

On tv, that was hard to see. Here I can distinguish their helmets.
For the average F1 fan it's near impossible I think, even from a still picture.

I find the helmets hard to distinguish too, so I watch for the T-Cams.

[Cold Fussion]

The front wing damage would have been minimal initially. They could have changed the front wing in the pit stop under the safety car and lost little time.

[Juzh]

KYV is not a good bench mark imo.

You say that, but after watching the onboards I can tell you Ric got absolutely schooled this race by KVY (and TR) on multiple occasions. How much the wing is to blame is unknown, he did say it got worse and worse as the race went on, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He does ultimately look faster, but needs to work on his race craft a bit this year (never thought I'd say that after what we saw last year).

[djos]

How many times have we seen drivers struggle with their cars when the front wing is damaged? It's not a new phenomenon.

It sure didn't help that rbr screwed the strategy up for both by pitting early.

[FoxHound]

Djos

Your point would be more valid had Red Bull changed the wing. They didn't.

Its also an issue that didn't affect the other Red bull car.
The only problem worth discussing are the brakes.

Because from this weekend, you say its Ricciardo's wing, Renault's engine, Kvyat not being as good as the 2 rookie Torro Rosso drivers, brakes (some substance here), strategy... basically anything but the obvious.

Those Torro Rosso's looked quicker, better balanced with more traction. That simply does not happen in the hands of 2 rookies in comparison with 2 other guys with a combined 5 seasons experience.

Basically, this thread got interesting because Red Bull pointed the finger at Renault as the raison d'etre for all their problems. I think yourself and Juzh still believe Renault to be the cause of all Red bulls problems.

If it weren't for Torro Rosso, We'd have no reference point for Renault.
But we do.
And the sorry fact is, Red Bull are not any better chassis wise than Torro Rosso.

Therefore any remarks pointed into Renaults direction due to their failings, whilst giving Red Bull a free pass can be construed as hypocritical.

[bhall II]

I still don't understand why someone from the Red Bull/Renault camp hasn't just come out and said:

"We were too busy winning four straight World Championships to go all-in on the 2014 regulations like Mercedes did."

It's (mostly) honest, nothing to be ashamed of, and, perhaps most importantly, it's a vastly superior PR strategy than whining to whoever will listen.

[Harsha]

If the Front wing is broken why it wasn't replaced at first place

[FoxHound]

If the Front wing is broken why it wasn't replaced at first place

That is the question for this weekend