2016 Red Bull Racing team - TAG Heuer

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
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flickerf1
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Re: 2016 Red Bull Racing team - TAG Heuer

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A question that has been nagging at me for a while is... Why did Red Bull pick Daniil over Jean-Eric? I mean, Jev finished 13th in the championship compared to Daniil's 15th. I don't understand the logic behind it. To me it seems foolish to choose a hotshot rookie compared to someone who has had 3 years of F1 experience. I would appreciate if someone could give me some insight into Red Bull's decision.
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djos
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flickerf1 wrote:A question that has been nagging at me for a while is... Why did Red Bull pick Daniil over Jean-Eric? I mean, Jev finished 13th in the championship compared to Daniil's 15th. I don't understand the logic behind it. To me it seems foolish to choose a hotshot rookie compared to someone who has had 3 years of F1 experience. I would appreciate if someone could give me some insight into Red Bull's decision.
JEV is a has been, in the 100% spec series FormulaE his best result was two 3rd's in two seasons.
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Pierce89
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flickerf1 wrote:A question that has been nagging at me for a while is... Why did Red Bull pick Daniil over Jean-Eric? I mean, Jev finished 13th in the championship compared to Daniil's 15th. I don't understand the logic behind it. To me it seems foolish to choose a hotshot rookie compared to someone who has had 3 years of F1 experience. I would appreciate if someone could give me some insight into Red Bull's decision.
IMHO, neither are very good, but of the two, JEV showed more talent in my eyes.

Ricciardo would be murdering either one in speed terms.
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djos
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Pierce89 wrote: IMHO, neither are very good, but of the two, JEV showed more talent in my eyes.

Ricciardo would be murdering either one in speed terms.
JEV raced well but was never able to qualify the car high up enough to produce any really good results. He rarely put the car in the top ten and as a result was able to chose his race tires under the rules at the time, this also flattered his results.
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Sevach
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flickerf1 wrote:A question that has been nagging at me for a while is... Why did Red Bull pick Daniil over Jean-Eric? I mean, Jev finished 13th in the championship compared to Daniil's 15th. I don't understand the logic behind it. To me it seems foolish to choose a hotshot rookie compared to someone who has had 3 years of F1 experience. I would appreciate if someone could give me some insight into Red Bull's decision.
Jev also got more points than Ricciardo at least one season, yet Red Bull saw more talent in Daniel.

I think when they brought Ricciardo to the big team, they had made up their minds that JEV wasn't "Red Bull material" and he was on his way to be cut, with the Vettel exit forcing their hand, but Ricciardo proving fit to be team leader they decided to take flyer on Kvyat a rookie rather than bringing a name from the outside.

Plus the big names looked set, Hamilton, Rosberg and Alonso weren't coming... maybe Button, but why sign an old Button to a reconstructing team?

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djos
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Sevach wrote: Jev also got more points than Ricciardo at least one season, yet Red Bull saw more talent in Daniel.

I think when they brought Ricciardo to the big team, they had made up their minds that JEV wasn't "Red Bull material" and he was on his way to be cut, with the Vettel exit forcing their hand, but Ricciardo proving fit to be team leader they decided to take flyer on Kvyat a rookie rather than bringing a name from the outside.

Plus the big names looked set, Hamilton, Rosberg and Alonso weren't coming... maybe Button, but why sign an old Button to a reconstructing team?
JEV got lucky in his first season paired with RIC, RIC would have been well in front on points if it weren't for his car breaking down on the last lap at Monza while in 5th place . Ignoring the points, the stats dont favour JEV at all eg

2012:
Top 10 finishes = RIC 6, JEV 4
Qually average = RIC 14.7, JEV 16.65

2013:
Top 10 finishes = RIC 7, JEV 3
Qually average = RIC 10.68, JEV 13.63
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Sevach
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They made the right choice between those 2, i'm not challenging that in any way.

My point was exactly that on lower midgrid teams that aren't on points in every race the standings might not reflect true performance, sometimes one driver lucks into an awesome result while the other gets a bunch of better finishes for crumbles.

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WaikeCU
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I think that's a luxury problem Red Bull has with its talents program. It's a great program for talents coming through the ranks towards F1, but once in F1, I believe you really have to stand out to really still have the full backing of the Red Bull program. Therefor I believe for most of them, once they are in F1 they have to persuade other teams to get them. There are few driver's that have that special trait to really stand out from the crowd and remain with full backing of Red Bull. I can only think of a few at the moment and that's: Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen and maybe Sainz Jr. Other drivers such as JEV, Buemi, Alguersuari, Kvyat and maybe Bourdais, I think they have the qualities to be in F1, maybe not on Red Bull's longterm level. Sadly, F1 only has a few seats available and most of them are already taken by most of the experienced drivers with a win under their belt.

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SectorOne
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djos wrote:He rarely put the car in the top ten and as a result was able to chose his race tires under the rules at the time, this also flattered his results.
I call BS.

The fact is that over 2 years of racing there was 1 point separating Vergne and Ricciardo.
Vergne then beat Kvyat after that and still got the boot.

During that time Ricciardo whipped Vettel and got Kvyat as teammate for 2015 were Kvyat beat him.
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JMGV196
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http://www.f1today.net/nl/nieuws/f1/211 ... ull-racing

Translation:

Verstappen replaces Kvyat at Spain GP.


What are the chances of Kyvat being replaced mid-season?

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Nathanael F1
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I would be surprised if Kvyat is replaced at Spain. A decision so quick seems rash and hasty to me.
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superdowg316
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If Red Bull do the seat swap as mentioned it would be without a doubt the dumbest thing to happen this year. I get it, Kvyat ruined the race for the team last time out, but he also scored their only podium this year the race before that. If ruining a teams race can get you pushed down/out, why wasn't Vettel fired after hitting Webber in Fuji 2007? Why weren't either Vettel or Webber put in a Toro Rosso from the next race onwards after Turkey 2010? This seems to me that they're using his last race as an excuse to simply put Verstappen in the car so that they keep him, and Daniil was the guy who screwed up first. Had Ricciardo made the same mistake, I don't think Red Bull would have made the decision, but it's no doubt a political one given Verstappen's popularity at the moment.
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djos
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SectorOne wrote:
djos wrote:He rarely put the car in the top ten and as a result was able to chose his race tires under the rules at the time, this also flattered his results.
I call BS.

The fact is that over 2 years of racing there was 1 point separating Vergne and Ricciardo.
Vergne then beat Kvyat after that and still got the boot.

During that time Ricciardo whipped Vettel and got Kvyat as teammate for 2015 were Kvyat beat him.
Sorry but the stats don't lie:

2012:
Top 10 finishes = RIC 6, JEV 4
Qually average = RIC 14.7, JEV 16.65

2013:
Top 10 finishes = RIC 7, JEV 3
Qually average = RIC 10.68, JEV 13.63
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WaikeCU
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superdowg316 wrote:If Red Bull do the seat swap as mentioned it would be without a doubt the dumbest thing to happen this year. I get it, Kvyat ruined the race for the team last time out, but he also scored their only podium this year the race before that. If ruining a teams race can get you pushed down/out, why wasn't Vettel fired after hitting Webber in Fuji 2007? Why weren't either Vettel or Webber put in a Toro Rosso from the next race onwards after Turkey 2010? This seems to me that they're using his last race as an excuse to simply put Verstappen in the car so that they keep him, and Daniil was the guy who screwed up first. Had Ricciardo made the same mistake, I don't think Red Bull would have made the decision, but it's no doubt a political one given Verstappen's popularity at the moment.
I think it might even become a political game with Putin playing center stage. Kvyat to lose his seat next race? Sure, then there won't be a Russian GP in the future. I could see Bernie massaging Red Bull in keeping Kvyat until the end of the season or maybe more. I won't be surprised.

RA168E
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WaikeCU wrote:
superdowg316 wrote:If Red Bull do the seat swap as mentioned it would be without a doubt the dumbest thing to happen this year. I get it, Kvyat ruined the race for the team last time out, but he also scored their only podium this year the race before that. If ruining a teams race can get you pushed down/out, why wasn't Vettel fired after hitting Webber in Fuji 2007? Why weren't either Vettel or Webber put in a Toro Rosso from the next race onwards after Turkey 2010? This seems to me that they're using his last race as an excuse to simply put Verstappen in the car so that they keep him, and Daniil was the guy who screwed up first. Had Ricciardo made the same mistake, I don't think Red Bull would have made the decision, but it's no doubt a political one given Verstappen's popularity at the moment.
I think it might even become a political game with Putin playing center stage. Kvyat to lose his seat next race? Sure, then there won't be a Russian GP in the future. I could see Bernie massaging Red Bull in keeping Kvyat until the end of the season or maybe more. I won't be surprised.
What kind of Tinfoil do you use for your hat? Thats such an outrageous thing to think. If that was the case, there would have been lots of races over the years get cancelled because of their respective drivers getting the boot. How come Monza is still on the grid? No Italians racing..

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