2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I don't see why they need people in the UK... how many titles do they won til now with the base at Maranello? And there are teams wich are based at UK, that don't won a title or even a race for much long.

Country Constructors Total
United Kingdom 10 33
Italy 1 16
Austria 1 4
France 2 3
Germany 1 2

Barring for two inspired spells, because of Niki Lauda and Michael Schumacher, the record of Ferrari has been quite awful.
Other than for these two drivers' era, Ferrari hasn't won back to back WDC championships.
UK based Williams, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes have all done it, at least once, significantly so in the last couple of decades.

[giantfan10]

I don't see why they need people in the UK... how many titles do they won til now with the base at Maranello? And there are teams wich are based at UK, that don't won a title or even a race for much long.

Country Constructors Total
United Kingdom 10 33
Italy 1 16
Austria 1 4
France 2 3
Germany 1 2

Barring for two inspired spells, because of Niki Lauda and Michael Schumacher, the record of Ferrari has been quite awful.
Other than for these two drivers' era, Ferrari hasn't won back to back WDC championships.
UK based Williams, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes have all done it, at least once, significantly so in the last couple of decades.

Stats as usual can say anything when manipulated to suit your arguement.... so its Ferrari against every team in Formula 1?
Most formula 1 championships ever(16) comes from ONE team in Italy versus 10 teams in the UK at 3.3 championships per team.
Proof to me that location isnt that important in the equation

[evered7]

Strategically the team is a mess, we saw it clearly when Sebastian ignored the team and stayed, and it worked which was bad news for the team.

Vettel would have finished second even if he pit as called by Ferrari. Kimi pit and was third all race long. Vettel would have had no problems being one place ahead, me thinks. Still it was good that he went with his intuition. Not that it made much difference.

[motobaleno]

I don't see why they need people in the UK... how many titles do they won til now with the base at Maranello? And there are teams wich are based at UK, that don't won a title or even a race for much long.

Country Constructors Total
United Kingdom 10 33
Italy 1 16
Austria 1 4
France 2 3
Germany 1 2

Barring for two inspired spells, because of Niki Lauda and Michael Schumacher, the record of Ferrari has been quite awful.
Other than for these two drivers' era, Ferrari hasn't won back to back WDC championships.
UK based Williams, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes have all done it, at least once, significantly so in the last couple of decades.

so, using your approach to statistical processing Red Bull, and Mercedes are very bad teams...you know they have thrown tons on money but BARRING for lewis hamilton and sebastian vettel they have won nothing
not to say that BARRING for niki lauda himself, ayrton senna and alain prost also williams and mclaren would have pretty poorer statistics....
maybe hystory cannot be done...barring

[f1316]

Aside from the already pointed out point that 16 titles from one team is much more impressive than 33 titles from 10 (FYI Maserati and Alfa also won world titles back when they competed), Briatore's comment about people from the UK not dreaming of living in maranello is laughable.

Yeah, how could they want to live in horrible, warm Italy with its nice food and the incredible motor racing history at maranello...when you have the paradise of Milton Keynes to dream of (I say this as someone from not that far from Milton Keynes).

James Allison, Jock Clear are both British; so was Ross Brawn - it didn't seem to stop them relocating. And don't even get me started on the notion that all the best engineers just *have* to come from the UK. Was Rory Byrne no good? Forghieri? Scalabroni? Is Aldo Costa not producing much these days?

And to top it all off, when Barnard did exactly the thing you're suggesting - I.e. Creating a Ferrari design office in England - it was not a great success.

[Chuckjr]

Schumacher was a freaky good driver and his presence was an amalgamating tour de force at Ferrari - bringing not only a talent level arguably not seen in f1 since Senna, but also a direction and cohesion which they have been starved of since they ran him off for Alonso. Fred had the talent yes, but not the team binding force that Michael brought, and this was likely a contributing factor to Fred's inability to land a title there despite his incredible talent --like Schumacher before him-- to bring a sub par car to a challenger to win races. These are the exceptional drivers in my opinion...the ones that can take a car that should not win, to consistently challenging for a win. To me, those are the championships worthy to savor.

One must consider the exception that Mike was when considering Ferrari's recent past. The poster here was correct, their 20 or so years before Michael were pretty abysmal despite having some amazing drivers. Just goes to prove again how special Schumacher was. His ability to attract the right team members to surround him to create an atmosphere of winning was critical to his having a car that was eventually extremely competitive. I'd love to see a driver like that again in F1 someday.

[bhall II]

So, I wasn't wrong in my assessment [that Ferrari "should have a design office, somewhere in UK"] and someone else thinks the same too.

Below is a picture of the great John Barnard working at Ferrari Guildford Technical Office, which he opened in 1988 in Surrey. It was there that he pioneered the semi-automatic gearbox.



The result was a third-place finish bookended by two second-place finishes..



As for the difficulty of recruiting talent to Maranello...

Adrian Newey agreed a sensational move to Ferrari earlier this year, it has emerged.

[...]

But a report in Russia's Championat claims Red Bull in fact came excruciatingly close to losing Newey altogether this year.

The report said the 55-year-old Briton had even "shaken hands" with now-departed president Luca di Montezemolo on a move to Ferrari for 2015 and beyond.

The report explained: "The agreement was leaked to the Italian press and Newey regarded it as an example of how political Ferrari is and so he informed Luca that the deal was off."

(Working at Ferrari requires a thick skin, an attribute not commonly found in F1's crowded sea of prima donnas.)

Ferrari's problem is McLaren's problem: it's no longer possible to contend for Championships every year, because there will always be a team that's willing to sacrifice performance for a year or two (or three) in order to devote huge resources toward mastering future regulations. We saw it with Red Bull, and now we're seeing it with Mercedes. To go against that trend is to gradually slip further and further behind.

In any case, it seems Ferrari has (wisely) already shifted to 2017...

However, Ferrari sources insist that Allison is wholly committed to the Ferrari project and is fully focused on sorting out the 2017 car that the team hopes will allow it to regularly compete at the top.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

So, I wasn't wrong in my assessment [that Ferrari "should have a design office, somewhere in UK"] and someone else thinks the same too.

Below is a picture of the great John Barnard working at Ferrari Guildford Technical Office, which he opened in 1988 in Surrey. It was there that he pioneered the semi-automatic gearbox.

http://i.imgur.com/HCwFJFV.jpg

The result was a third-place finish bookended by two second-place finishes..

http://i.imgur.com/Y4VsvZw.png

And how long did they sustained the UK operations? Anyone who knows doing business, understands it's a matter of sustaining the initial investment, lay down a solid platform and then over a long period of time, reep the benefits. First of all, they half heartedly opened a center in UK, didn't really showed commitment to it and then after one year, closed it down and ran back home. When they amalgamated Jean Todt, MS, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne, did they won the championship in the first year? Clearly shows, lack of ability and intent to build a new platform, outside the comfort zone of their stupidity.

As for the difficulty of recruiting talent to Maranello...

Adrian Newey agreed a sensational move to Ferrari earlier this year, it has emerged.

[...]

But a report in Russia's Championat claims Red Bull in fact came excruciatingly close to losing Newey altogether this year.

The report said the 55-year-old Briton had even "shaken hands" with now-departed president Luca di Montezemolo on a move to Ferrari for 2015 and beyond.

The report explained: "The agreement was leaked to the Italian press and Newey regarded it as an example of how political Ferrari is and so he informed Luca that the deal was off."

(Working at Ferrari requires a thick skin, an attribute not commonly found in F1's crowded sea of prima donnas.)

Let me quote it correctly, "Working with prejudiced idiots requires a thick skin". And if the wait is for such a person, they probably have to wait for another continental drift to complete.

Ferrari's problem is McLaren's problem: it's no longer possible to contend for Championships every year, because there will always be a team that's willing to sacrifice performance for a year or two (or three) in order to devote huge resources toward mastering future regulations. We saw it with Red Bull, and now we're seeing it with Mercedes. To go against that trend is to gradually slip further and further behind.

Ferrari's problem is simply, their own creation and McLaren's problem is that they do not want to get into Engine business and hence running from piller to post in search of having a manufacturer who takes them as a Works team. When Mercedes supported them, they did won championships. They can still win if Honda helps them.

In any case, it seems Ferrari has (wisely) already shifted to 2017...

Knowing fully that they don't have enough talent in them to use the regulation changes to their advantage, I wouldn't be surprised if they turn up in Barcelona in February with a dog. The story of throwing the towel would continue.....
1. Last year, at Canada GP, it was supposed to be a 70% new car that was supposed to help them start the challenge for championship.
2. This year's car WAS COMPLETELY NEW CONCEPT, as there were some fundamental problems with 2015 car, which is now supposed to mount the championship challenge. At the end of winter testing, they were JUST 0.2 seconds behind Mercedes !!!
3. Next year.... "Oh, we didn't get the regulations right, so let's concentrate for 2018".

However, Ferrari sources insist that Allison is wholly committed to the Ferrari project and is fully focused on sorting out the 2017 car that the team hopes will allow it to regularly compete at the top.

Given the same budget and facilities, a Force India would surely win a championship every other year, to say the least.

[bhall II]

In a post rife with questionable leaps of logic, you've managed to make one objective, incontrovertible statement - and it's one that doesn't exactly help your cause.

When Mercedes supported [McLaren] they did won championships.

During Mercedes' tenure with McLaren from 1995 to 2014...

McLaren Drivers' Championships: 3 (One of those benefited from IP stolen from Ferrari.)
Constructors' Championships: 1

Ferrari Drivers' Championships: 6
Constructors' Championships: 8

Number of instances in which Ferrari finished ahead of McLaren in the Constructors' Championship: 14
Number of instances in which McLaren finished ahead of Ferrari: 5

McLaren-Mercedes was thoroughly dominated by Ferrari.

Including the current season, mean position of team's top driver since Mercedes' arrival as a works outfit in 2010...

Ferrari: 3.1
McLaren: 8
Mercedes: 4.2
Red Bull: 2.7

Red Bull and Mercedes each found success after three years and substantial changes in the regulations. Ferrari and McLaren are both in year two of their respective rebuilds.

Including the current season for Ferrari and McLaren, mean position of team's top driver during the first two years of a major overhaul...

Ferrari (2015, 2016): 3
McLaren (2015, 2016): 14.5
Mercedes (2010, 2011): 7
Red Bull (2006, 2007): 11.5 (10.5 if we consider Red Bull's overhaul to have begun only after Newey had penned his first car for the team)

So, tell me again why I'm supposed be Chicken Little (Henny Penny) here.

Ferrari's problem this season is one of unrealistic expectations set by a relative newcomer to the sport (Marchionne). Otherwise, I don't see what the fuss is about.

EDIT: corrected lazy calculations

[Vasconia]

I agree with the fact that Ferrari is a classic underperformer team. Even during the Shumi years there were seasons which were saved because they could run and run in Fiorano until they found the right pieces for the car. What I mean it that even with Bryne Ferrari´s designs could be also flawed in some aspects. I dont count 2002 and 2004 when the car was nearly perfect from the very beginning.

[giantfan10]

I agree with the fact that Ferrari is a classic underperformer team. Even during the Shumi years there were seasons which were saved because they could run and run in Fiorano until they found the right pieces for the car. What I mean it that even with Bryne Ferrari´s designs could be also flawed in some aspects. I dont count 2002 and 2004 when the car was nearly perfect from the very beginning.

So which team is the team that you are holding up as the gold standard?
Thats a slippery slope youre trying to negotiate when you start removing key pieces from a team to justify your opinion.
Red bull without Newey and their mastery of the blown diffuser would not be competitive.
Mercedes without Andy Cowell ,token rules and the ability to veto any chance to allow the other engine manufacturers to compete would not be dominating anything.
See how slippery that slope is?

[Scuderia1967]

So, I wasn't wrong in my assessment [that Ferrari "should have a design office, somewhere in UK"] and someone else thinks the same too.

Below is a picture of the great John Barnard working at Ferrari Guildford Technical Office, which he opened in 1988 in Surrey. It was there that he pioneered the semi-automatic gearbox.

http://i.imgur.com/HCwFJFV.jpg

The result was a third-place finish bookended by two second-place finishes..

http://i.imgur.com/Y4VsvZw.png

As for the difficulty of recruiting talent to Maranello...

Adrian Newey agreed a sensational move to Ferrari earlier this year, it has emerged.

[...]

But a report in Russia's Championat claims Red Bull in fact came excruciatingly close to losing Newey altogether this year.

The report said the 55-year-old Briton had even "shaken hands" with now-departed president Luca di Montezemolo on a move to Ferrari for 2015 and beyond.

The report explained: "The agreement was leaked to the Italian press and Newey regarded it as an example of how political Ferrari is and so he informed Luca that the deal was off."

(Working at Ferrari requires a thick skin, an attribute not commonly found in F1's crowded sea of prima donnas.)

Ferrari's problem is McLaren's problem: it's no longer possible to contend for Championships every year, because there will always be a team that's willing to sacrifice performance for a year or two (or three) in order to devote huge resources toward mastering future regulations. We saw it with Red Bull, and now we're seeing it with Mercedes. To go against that trend is to gradually slip further and further behind.

In any case, it seems Ferrari has (wisely) already shifted to 2017...

However, Ferrari sources insist that Allison is wholly committed to the Ferrari project and is fully focused on sorting out the 2017 car that the team hopes will allow it to regularly compete at the top.

Check your facts before posting, mister. The semi-automatic gearbox was a Mauro Forghieri project

[Vasconia]

I agree with the fact that Ferrari is a classic underperformer team. Even during the Shumi years there were seasons which were saved because they could run and run in Fiorano until they found the right pieces for the car. What I mean it that even with Bryne Ferrari´s designs could be also flawed in some aspects. I dont count 2002 and 2004 when the car was nearly perfect from the very beginning.

So which team is the team that you are holding up as the gold standard?
Thats a slippery slope youre trying to negotiate when you start removing key pieces from a team to justify your opinion.
Red bull without Newey and their mastery of the blown diffuser would not be competitive.
Mercedes without Andy Cowell ,token rules and the ability to veto any chance to allow the other engine manufacturers to compete would not be dominating anything.
See how slippery that slope is?

Sorry but I dont understand what do you mean. (seriously, not being sarcastic here)

[bhall II]

Check your facts before posting, mister. The semi-automatic gearbox was a Mauro Forghieri project

Don't shoot the messenger.

Courted by Ferrari in 1987, Barnard was able to dictate his terms to the Italian company - he was given $2 million and his own design center - Ferrari Guildford Technical Office - in England. It was from here that he masterminded his next technical breakthrough - the semi-automatic gearbox.

And Forghieri's hydraulic design was never raced.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Thats a slippery slope youre trying to negotiate when you start removing key pieces from a team to justify your opinion.
Red bull without Newey and their mastery of the blown diffuser would not be competitive.
Mercedes without Andy Cowell ,

This is understandable.

token rules and the ability to veto any chance to allow the other engine manufacturers to compete would not be dominating anything.

This? The rules were not laid out in 2014. Everybody knew what it was. When did Mercedes vetoed anything? They didn't made much fuss at the beginning of 2015, when Ferrari found a loophole with respect usage of token for in season development. This year, they even offered a 5% extra fuel usage for other manufacturers. Has Ferrari ever done that, or will they ever let go off their advantage?