2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Wass85
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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Adam_Birem wrote:
Wass85 wrote:
Shakeman wrote:
Garbage, you have no idea what it takes to be at his level, the commitment it has taken to get there and the commitment it takes to stay there.

If you read what the team have said about Hamilton it's clear he has taken them to places they have never been in pushing them forward. They team said there was a glitch and now they've found something in the data they didn't like, the team determines when the driver drives not vice versa.
So they decided to let Bottas drive instead, I'm not having it I'm afraid.
You may have noticed Mercedes is working by half days for their drivers.
I fully know that but Hamilton didn't get to drive in his schedule, to be fair they should have split the afternoons running.

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dans79
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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Wass85 wrote: I fully know that but Hamilton didn't get to drive in his schedule, to be fair they should have split the afternoons running.
That would be more of a detriment to the team. Bottas gets less time to get used to how the car acts and Merc works (he needs this). The team losses time making changes to the car so they can swap drivers (swapping seats, steering wheels, and adjusting pedals etc).
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Wass85
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Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 22:11

Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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dans79 wrote:
Wass85 wrote: I fully know that but Hamilton didn't get to drive in his schedule, to be fair they should have split the afternoons running.
That would be more of a detriment to the team. Bottas gets less time to get used to how the car acts and Merc works (he needs this). The team losses time making changes to the car so they can swap drivers (swapping seats, steering wheels, and adjusting pedals etc).
Stuff Bottas! Hamilton is their main man not Bottas, if anything Bottas should have missed this afternoon. Hamilton is way too passive or he just doesn't care as much as he should imo.

Wass85
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Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 22:11

Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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It won't likely have any effect but I'd want every second possible in the car if I was him.

Sonador
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Joined: 06 May 2016, 17:26

Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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Wass85 wrote:It won't likely have any effect but I'd want every second possible in the car if I was him.
He is a 3time world champion, i think he himself knows best what works for him!

Same goes for his team, they know what is best for them.
It is not logical to split a afternoon in 2 parts, because you lose even more running time as wa mentioned previousley.

#-o

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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Wass85 wrote:
dans79 wrote:
Wass85 wrote: I fully know that but Hamilton didn't get to drive in his schedule, to be fair they should have split the afternoons running.
That would be more of a detriment to the team. Bottas gets less time to get used to how the car acts and Merc works (he needs this). The team losses time making changes to the car so they can swap drivers (swapping seats, steering wheels, and adjusting pedals etc).
Stuff Bottas! Hamilton is their main man not Bottas, if anything Bottas should have missed this afternoon. Hamilton is way too passive or he just doesn't care as much as he should imo.
I disagree on 'stuffing' Bottas. Bottas needs the time more than Hamilton. A WCC is still won by 2 drivers, not one. You could argue Hamilton was too passive/indifferent towards the running, although given it is largely unrepresentative running in the damp conditions. Bottas however can use the time to get more used to the handling charasteristics of the Mercedes.
#AeroFrodo

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dans79
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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turbof1 wrote: I disagree on 'stuffing' Bottas. Bottas needs the time more than Hamilton. A WCC is still won by 2 drivers, not one. You could argue Hamilton was too passive/indifferent towards the running, although given it is largely unrepresentative running in the damp conditions. Bottas however can use the time to get more used to the handling characteristics of the Mercedes.
I'd add that on several occasions Hamilton has made it clear that he doesn't much care for trodding around the track, nor does he think he benefits much from it. He has stated he wants and benefits the most from being able to push. By push he means in the general sense, not just qualifying laps.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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Wass85 wrote:It won't likely have any effect but I'd want every second possible in the car if I was him.
The three time champion of ten years experience himself said he won't learn much by driving today. Who are we to judge him?
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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turbof1 wrote:
Wass85 wrote:
dans79 wrote:
That would be more of a detriment to the team. Bottas gets less time to get used to how the car acts and Merc works (he needs this). The team losses time making changes to the car so they can swap drivers (swapping seats, steering wheels, and adjusting pedals etc).
Stuff Bottas! Hamilton is their main man not Bottas, if anything Bottas should have missed this afternoon. Hamilton is way too passive or he just doesn't care as much as he should imo.
I disagree on 'stuffing' Bottas. Bottas needs the time more than Hamilton. A WCC is still won by 2 drivers, not one. You could argue Hamilton was too passive/indifferent towards the running, although given it is largely unrepresentative running in the damp conditions. Bottas however can use the time to get more used to the handling charasteristics of the Mercedes.
Maybe they had a problem, maybe not, but they finished testing early having screwed up an afternoon of possible dry testing for the other teams. if it was a choice not to run then it wouldn't be Hamilton choosing. That's incredibly ignorant and naive to believe he'd do that. I fear that there's a lot of confirmation bias going on here. Those who want to believe the worst of Hamilton are soooo desperate to think that it's all his doing. It's really such a ridiculous notion, it's laughable that the whole team would stand around waiting while he refuses to go out in the wet. It's nonsense. But go ahead people, believe what you will...

Wass85
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Joined: 01 Mar 2017, 22:11

Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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I'm not saying that, my view is Hamilton doesn't push for things and tbh didn't even want to drive in the wet today which is stupid in my eyes. His comments yesterday showed he didn't fancy testing in the wet.

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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bonjon1979 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
Wass85 wrote:
Stuff Bottas! Hamilton is their main man not Bottas, if anything Bottas should have missed this afternoon. Hamilton is way too passive or he just doesn't care as much as he should imo.
I disagree on 'stuffing' Bottas. Bottas needs the time more than Hamilton. A WCC is still won by 2 drivers, not one. You could argue Hamilton was too passive/indifferent towards the running, although given it is largely unrepresentative running in the damp conditions. Bottas however can use the time to get more used to the handling charasteristics of the Mercedes.
Maybe they had a problem, maybe not, but they finished testing early having screwed up an afternoon of possible dry testing for the other teams. if it was a choice not to run then it wouldn't be Hamilton choosing. That's incredibly ignorant and naive to believe he'd do that. I fear that there's a lot of confirmation bias going on here. Those who want to believe the worst of Hamilton are soooo desperate to think that it's all his doing. It's really such a ridiculous notion, it's laughable that the whole team would stand around waiting while he refuses to go out in the wet. It's nonsense. But go ahead people, believe what you will...
That's speculating. All we know is that Hamilton himself stated he did not saw the purpose of driving in these conditions. In my opinion, that's more realistic than trying to believe in some sort of elaborate scheme where Mercedes decided for him and where they made him tell it was his idea.

You don't have to believe that, but I also find it blatantly disrespectful to put people who have a different opinion down as Hamilton haters. I personally think Hamilton made a good call as the conditions really were not representative at all and that there was nothing to gain for Hamilton out of it.

A bit more reasoning and trying to look it from a rational side would be nice for a change in this discussion. Too many people are acting way too emotional about it.
Wass85 wrote:I'm not saying that, my view is Hamilton doesn't push for things and tbh didn't even want to drive in the wet today which is stupid in my eyes. His comments yesterday showed he didn't fancy testing in the wet.
On the other hand, what could he have gained from it, besides risking to slidder off track and hurting himself? I can understand his reasoning on this and more importantly we have absolutely no clue what he was doing instead. He could just as well have sit down with his engineers and studied the data to get a better understanding where he could do better. I'm not claiming that is what happened, but I feel this is too assumptious to put down as stupid.
#AeroFrodo

bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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turbof1 wrote:
bonjon1979 wrote:
turbof1 wrote: I disagree on 'stuffing' Bottas. Bottas needs the time more than Hamilton. A WCC is still won by 2 drivers, not one. You could argue Hamilton was too passive/indifferent towards the running, although given it is largely unrepresentative running in the damp conditions. Bottas however can use the time to get more used to the handling charasteristics of the Mercedes.
Maybe they had a problem, maybe not, but they finished testing early having screwed up an afternoon of possible dry testing for the other teams. if it was a choice not to run then it wouldn't be Hamilton choosing. That's incredibly ignorant and naive to believe he'd do that. I fear that there's a lot of confirmation bias going on here. Those who want to believe the worst of Hamilton are soooo desperate to think that it's all his doing. It's really such a ridiculous notion, it's laughable that the whole team would stand around waiting while he refuses to go out in the wet. It's nonsense. But go ahead people, believe what you will...
That's speculating. All we know is that Hamilton himself stated he did not saw the purpose of driving in these conditions. In my opinion, that's more realistic than trying to believe in some sort of elaborate scheme where Mercedes decided for him and where they made him tell it was his idea.

You don't have to believe that, but I also find it blatantly disrespectful to put people who have a different opinion down as Hamilton haters. I personally think Hamilton made a good call as the conditions really were not representative at all and that there was nothing to gain for Hamilton out of it.

A bit more reasoning and trying to look it from a rational side would be nice for a change in this discussion. Too many people are acting way too emotional about it.
I'd love to see where I referred to anyone as a 'hater'. (As a moderator of some repute, i'd expect better from you)

It's irrational to think that there aren't lots of us on here who have bias to our posts. Confirmation bias is natural and common place. Ferrari doing well - they always run light in testing, mclaren in the garage - it must be Honda have screwed up again, red bull off the pace - we're waiting for newey to put all his magic on the car.

In this instance, I think it far more likely that Merc didn't fancy spending too much time running in the wet due to lack of components and understanding how little they'd actually gain from it. Those discussions were had within the team, Hamilton echoed them the night before. They saw some merit in bottas running a few laps but not much so called time early.
Or they had an electrical problem....

Do we really think that Hamilton just saying no is more likely than any of the above?

But maybe this is my confirmation bias?

Look at it logically tho - 8 days testing. 1500 employees. Do we really believe that they wanted to go out and it was just Hamilton saying no? Why did they let bottas go out for 20 minutes before lunch? Why didn't they let him go sooner if Hamilton didn't fancy it?

Hamilton IS a prima Donna. People, including myself, don't appreciate that about him. But we have to be serious, would Mercedes really allow that to derail a days testing, which they knew would be wet tyre testing weeks in advance? Come on...its just not logical...
Last edited by bonjon1979 on 03 Mar 2017, 00:03, edited 1 time in total.

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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bonjon1979 wrote:Look at it logically tho - 8 days testing. 1500 employees. Do we really believe that they wanted to go out and it was just Hamilton saying no? Why did they let bottas go out for 20 minutes before lunch? Why didn't they let him go sooner if Hamilton didn't fancy it?
Does one exclude the other? There was little running on the track when the track was wet, suggested almost none of the teams wanted to run in this weather. However, there were brief moments where running on a dry/ half dry track was possible. The first one was 20 minutes before lunch where they let Bottas out, and the other was in the final 1.5 hours (I believe). Could just as well be Mercedes saying "f*ck it, we only run if and when there's a dry oppertunity" and Hamilton saying "f*ck it, that small window of opportunity is time I can spend better in a different way".
I'd love to see where I referred to anyone as a 'hater'. (As a moderator of some repute, i'd expect better from you)
Well, that's how it came across. My apologies if that is incorrect, although you have to admit the description "Those who want to believe the worst of Hamilton are soooo desperate to think that it's all his doing" very closely hings on to the definition of a hater.
#AeroFrodo

bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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turbof1 wrote:
bonjon1979 wrote:Look at it logically tho - 8 days testing. 1500 employees. Do we really believe that they wanted to go out and it was just Hamilton saying no? Why did they let bottas go out for 20 minutes before lunch? Why didn't they let him go sooner if Hamilton didn't fancy it?
Does one exclude the other? There was little running on the track when the track was wet, suggested almost none of the teams wanted to run in this weather. However, there were brief moments where running on a dry/ half dry track was possible. The first one was 20 minutes before lunch where they let Bottas out, and the other was in the final 1.5 hours (I believe). Could just as well be Mercedes saying "f*ck it, we only run if and when there's a dry oppertunity" and Hamilton saying "f*ck it, that small window of opportunity is time I can spend better in a different way".
I'd love to see where I referred to anyone as a 'hater'. (As a moderator of some repute, i'd expect better from you)
Well, that's how it came across. My apologies if that is incorrect, although you have to admit the description "Those who want to believe the worst of Hamilton are soooo desperate to think that it's all his doing" very closely hings on to the definition of a hater.
I think it's just true. Everyone has their opinions and they colour how events are interpreted. I haven't seen a single post about Bottas not finishing off the day. The track was dry, it was perfect for running, Bottas had better things to do with his time?

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 F1 Pre-season testing February 27 - March 2/ March 7-10

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bonjon1979 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
bonjon1979 wrote:Look at it logically tho - 8 days testing. 1500 employees. Do we really believe that they wanted to go out and it was just Hamilton saying no? Why did they let bottas go out for 20 minutes before lunch? Why didn't they let him go sooner if Hamilton didn't fancy it?
Does one exclude the other? There was little running on the track when the track was wet, suggested almost none of the teams wanted to run in this weather. However, there were brief moments where running on a dry/ half dry track was possible. The first one was 20 minutes before lunch where they let Bottas out, and the other was in the final 1.5 hours (I believe). Could just as well be Mercedes saying "f*ck it, we only run if and when there's a dry oppertunity" and Hamilton saying "f*ck it, that small window of opportunity is time I can spend better in a different way".
I'd love to see where I referred to anyone as a 'hater'. (As a moderator of some repute, i'd expect better from you)
Well, that's how it came across. My apologies if that is incorrect, although you have to admit the description "Those who want to believe the worst of Hamilton are soooo desperate to think that it's all his doing" very closely hings on to the definition of a hater.
Everyone has their opinions and they colour how events are interpreted.
Finally some understanding =D> . If everybody follows suit, that would be lovely.
#AeroFrodo

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