2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Sayeman]

Mclaren is talking to Porsche.

Porsche's quitting WEC for Formula E not to supply engines to Mclaren

[GhostF1]

At this point I'm thinking McLaren-Renault would be a good interim option. At least those PU's work, and even if they're a bit down on power, there is enough to finish and occasionally win races.

If McLaren's chassis is as good as people seem to believe it is, they'd at least be competing with RBR.

Why would Renault be any better? It's known they are closer to the front runners power wise, but they also have extremely variable reliability as we've seen, and Cyril is a media catwalker, he is all promises and then adjusts these promises down the track. He looked to snuff the quote from Jonathan at press conference about "performance guarantees don't really exist in this business. The benefit of becoming a Renault customer team? I'm not sure even short term it would be a smart move to set all that up. And the image of ditching Honda to go to Renault and then potentially back to Honda... no no. I cannot see that happening.
I think this rubbish about the "McLaren three" wandering all over the paddock in clear view is just media pressure to Honda. These deals don't happen in motorhomes at GP weekends, lets be real. Surely they are just "what if" conversations at a maximum. The only HQ Jonathan Neale has been seen walking into, is that of Honda in Japan. They're keeping the pressure, for sure, but the betting tables still show odds of McLaren running next years Honda engine.

[GhostF1]

Mclaren is talking to Porsche.

Porsche's quitting WEC for Formula E not to supply engines to Mclaren

This.
Why would McLaren think signing with another newcomer would benefit them in any way at all.

[GoranF1]

Mclaren is talking to Porsche.

Porsche's quitting WEC for Formula E not to supply engines to Mclaren

This.
Why would McLaren think signing with another newcomer would benefit them in any way at all.

About 2021 engine suply.

[HPD]

Not all have the technology of the pre-chamber or whatever you want to call it. Right now formula 1 is not attractive to anyone..
No matter if there will be regulatory changes for the engine in 2021, all this new technology will be reused.

Sincerely, people speak more with their hearts than with their brains. I hope I will not offend anyone, but you should know that building an engine is not an easy thing to do. And the time required is many years (and more if you do not have the current technology).

[GhostF1]

Porsche's quitting WEC for Formula E not to supply engines to Mclaren

This.
Why would McLaren think signing with another newcomer would benefit them in any way at all.

About 2021 engine suply.

The same still applies. Why sign with a manufacturer who has even less F1 experience and bargain it'll work out fine. They're safer sticking with Honda with all the relationships they've created and working through the 2021 design closer than when it was a new relationship in 2014.

[Singabule]

Mclaren is talking to Porsche.

2021 maybe, but not in 2018 or 2019. In lmp1, their CC is worse than Toyota, so that even with 4 cylinder and mguh, they can not beat Toyota in the term of efficiency.

[zeph]

At this point I'm thinking McLaren-Renault would be a good interim option. At least those PU's work, and even if they're a bit down on power, there is enough to finish and occasionally win races.

If McLaren's chassis is as good as people seem to believe it is, they'd at least be competing with RBR.

Why would Renault be any better?

..................

They're keeping the pressure, for sure, but the betting tables still show odds of McLaren running next years Honda engine.

You are conflating two different issues, but to address them:

- I think Renault has proven to be better in just about every possible performance metric one can think of. More power, more fuel-efficient, more reliable. RBR are podium contenders with them, and their DNF's aren't typically because of PU issues.

- Yes, my money is on McLaren sticking with Honda next year. It is the only 'works' option, unless they were to start from scratch again with a different manufacturer, but I don't see any of those being too keen on getting involved in F1 right now.

Again, my original point was that Renault PU's would be a good interim solution for McLaren. Not a permanent one.

[adrianjordan]

Badged as Renault or Tagg Heuer??

[zeph]

Lol, badged as Nissan, I'd say...

[GhostF1]

At this point I'm thinking McLaren-Renault would be a good interim option. At least those PU's work, and even if they're a bit down on power, there is enough to finish and occasionally win races.

If McLaren's chassis is as good as people seem to believe it is, they'd at least be competing with RBR.

Why would Renault be any better?

..................

They're keeping the pressure, for sure, but the betting tables still show odds of McLaren running next years Honda engine.

You are conflating two different issues, but to address them:

- I think Renault has proven to be better in just about every possible performance metric one can think of. More power, more fuel-efficient, more reliable. RBR are podium contenders with them, and their DNF's aren't typically because of PU issues.

- Yes, my money is on McLaren sticking with Honda next year. It is the only 'works' option, unless they were to start from scratch again with a different manufacturer, but I don't see any of those being too keen on getting involved in F1 right now.

Again, my original point was that Renault PU's would be a good interim solution for McLaren. Not a permanent one.

I agree with with that, to a point. But they aren't enough of an improvement to warrant terminating a contract and all the infrastructure that goes with it, to sign up to another OEM that isn't up to the front runners either and can only offer a customer team service, McLaren are equalling Renault Works and Toro Rosso at the moment and the engine only seems to be getting stronger, I also can't see how we can be sure Renault will be healthier than Honda next year either, it's all what if's.
Sure Red Bull are podium contenders if Ferrari have a bad day but that can't possibly be McLaren's target. And an interim to what? Merc caving and saying yes to a supply? Or just to return to Honda down the track. I cant see any of that being feasible at this level. It could backfire horribly and make the stress of this season all for nothing.

[Soichiro]

At this point I'm thinking McLaren-Renault would be a good interim option. At least those PU's work, and even if they're a bit down on power, there is enough to finish and occasionally win races.

If McLaren's chassis is as good as people seem to believe it is, they'd at least be competing with RBR.

Why would Renault be any better?

..................

They're keeping the pressure, for sure, but the betting tables still show odds of McLaren running next years Honda engine.

You are conflating two different issues, but to address them:

- I think Renault has proven to be better in just about every possible performance metric one can think of. More power, more fuel-efficient, more reliable. RBR are podium contenders with them, and their DNF's aren't typically because of PU issues.

- Yes, my money is on McLaren sticking with Honda next year. It is the only 'works' option, unless they were to start from scratch again with a different manufacturer, but I don't see any of those being too keen on getting involved in F1 right now.

Again, my original point was that Renault PU's would be a good interim solution for McLaren. Not a permanent one.

Once Honda introduces the next upgrade (I admit is a bit unknown at this moment of time how good it will be or even when it will be introduced), they will be thereabout with Renault in terms of peak power and consumption (more or less the same thing in this formula). Renault engines are NOT reliable. In fact IF Honda has now fixed the MGU-H the Renault engine might just be considered less reliable (look at the last three races). Honda also provides McLaren a good sum of money and free engines. Why would McLaren make a move to Renault then? What would be the benefit?

I know there are some IFs in my statements. The point is the next upgrade might turn things around. If that happens a move from Honda to Renault would be a mistake. It's a question that will be answered in about 2 months. If I had gone though all this pain in past 2.5 years I would be willing to wait at least 2 more months.

At the end of the day a successful McLaren Honda brand would be the best outcome, but if McLaren is so "against" Honda now, then a move to TR would be good too.

[Vasconia]

A theoretical move to Renault would be the dumbest move ever done. Only Honda´s terrible job makes Renault to look better. After 3 seasons(4 if we count this) Renault hasn´t been able to solve their reliability problems and they are still clearly behind in terms of power.

At least Honda gives free engines and an importal economical boost.

[ZakB]

I think that it's highly likely that McLaren will be the 4th fastest team next year, so they'll have to ask themselves if it's possible to beat the other three with customers engines? I highly doubt that.

[McL-H]

@Mcl-H Oh don't get me wrong, i don't think they'll be on par with Mercedes this year. By fixing their issues this year, i'm talking about having fully eliminated the core problems they ran into at the start. Honda did say after all there is no use in copying existing designs as it would only limit yourself to that design. They want something of their own, and to be honest, who can blame them?

Let's be honest here though, who really knows how long mercedes might have been working on that V6T engine and how many failures they ran into even before coming close to the 2014 engine changes? They might have had similar failures and finally got the light and found exactly what they're running now, which could convince Lewis to step in and go for it at Mercedes?

On one hand, Honda is 3 years behind Mercedes, but they actually could be a full 6 or 7 years behind if Mercedes slammed a bunchload of money at the project. It was definately worth it in the end, look at all the titles they hauled in, and all the engines they sell to other teams, with more benefit there too, AND all the revenue and positive exposure they get through that.

Honda no doubt stepped in 'too late'. Just look at Renault in 2014 and all the mayhem there. How easily that is forgotten! That's still the reason why RedBull runs TagHeuer branded engines, after all, AND look at the issues they are still having AND that they're still behind Mercedes. Only Ferrari seems to have come a good lot closer to Mercedes and still the Prancing Horse's qually mode is miles behind the Silver Star's.

Aha, I indeed misunderstood what you meant. I absolutely agree with you when it comes to the advantage Mercedes has got over Honda. Therefore, I can't see Honda getting on-par with Mercedes. They are so far ahead in development, that Renault and Honda would only be able to catch up if Mercedes development were to be freezed for at least a year. And that will not happen.

And I have not forgotten about Renault. Renault is one of the reasons I don't believe Honda will make it work. Because after Renault's awful start to this engine formula, they have not been able to make it work either. Once you are trailing behind, it becomes too difficult to catch up. Ferrari has almost closed the gap, but in the end, Mercedes still has the advantage.

So what makes people think Honda can cancel their deficit is beyond me.