New ECU regulations

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Mjölnir
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by Mjölnir » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:13 pm

Dragonfly wrote:There are more qualified people on this forum, so let them explain the details. meanwhile I thing that not only 3D but multi-dimensional maps are used even on ordinary road cars. Or am I wrong?
Hello

and sorry formy poor english-I thinkthe 3D term regards the number of input values
used to calculate the output value.

During the turbo areathe maps worked on 3 sensor readings - revs / throttle / and boost. This makes it possible to work with the back pressure value of the engine.

So if you take a normal alpha/n map and use for example the change of the lambda
signal, you can take this signal to implement a traction control.

All in all the ECU side is not controllable - never was.

kind regards Peter

strad
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by strad » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:42 pm

I'd like to know why they were ever allowed to alter the mapping after qualifying.
Parc Ferme and all...now we find out they have been changing the cars.
I'm glad to see an end to it.
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ESPImperium
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by ESPImperium » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Teams are now trying to put more and more settings into the rotary switches that give them diffrent modes now. And i think this could be the next thing that gets cut down, as i have been looking at my Haynes Red Bull RB6 Manual and have found that the RB5 steering wheel that is in it via a CAD drawing has 12 diffrent modes in it.

It also has 12 diffrent modes for fuel mix, Front Flap Adjust, Miulti function switch and a rotary for tyre select.

I can see the rotarys being FIA stickered soon to prevent changes pre race start.

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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by MarkH » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:54 pm

Mjölnir wrote:I thinkthe 3D term regards the number of input values used to calculate the output value.
I am a professional automotive electronics engineer and long time reader of the forum but this is my first post :D so Hi!. We use the terminology as Mjölnir as suggested to mean the number of input parameters. This stems from the way maps are defined in the software, so a 1D array or map is defined e.g. MyMap[x]
a 2D array/map: MyMap[x][y]
and a 3D array/map: MyMap[x][y][z]

Just thought - could this be an example of different interpretations in Europe and the States?

...also, to address another point raised above, when switching maps some ECUs will 'blend' smoothly from one map to another rather than making a sudden jump.

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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by Dragonfly » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:52 am

Hi MarkH!
I have a question - are there more than three parameters in the maps for modern engines? I have a vague memory I've read somewhere that maps can be more than 3 dimensional. It's not easy for a man to imagine more than tree dimensional array but computers have no problem accessing them :)
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strad
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by strad » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:57 am

Maps...modes...mixes... :roll:
There has been a lot of talk lately about engine mapping, what with the changes made for Valencia and for Silverstone.

In Valencia the FIA outlawed the changing of engine maps between qualifying and the race, while from Silverstone onwards teams will have to rework engine maps and throttles so that there is no more than 10% throttle opening blowing exhaust through the diffuser when the driver lifts of the throttle pedal.

We’ve all got very carried away with talk of engine maps, but one reader,
Gondokmg, from South Africa, pulled us up and asked us to explain. He posted these extremely good questions the other day. So I took them to our friends at Mercedes-Benz and they were happy enough to put forward an engineer to explain.

What is the difference between an engine map (like what the FIA have now prevented teams from changing between qualifying and the race) and an engine mode (like that Vettel had switched on just before he crashed into Webber in Turkey last year) ?

Mercedes: “There is no accepted universal definition of what constitutes a map or a mode, but we draw a general distinction between a ‘mode’ and ‘mix’ settings: what the question refers to as a ‘map’ we would refer to as a
‘mode’, and what the question calls a ‘mode’ we would call ‘mix settings’.
Generally we accept that by “mode” we mean a broad description of a regime under which we run the engine. This defines the philosophy of ignition mapping, fuelling and the distribution of fuel cut strategies used to
achieve the torque that the driver demands. This is what the teams were no
longer allowed to change between qualifying and the race in Valencia.

Engine “mix” settings are detail changes to fuelling that are routinely
used during the race to reposition ourselves on the curve between fuel
consumption and engine power.”

For a race like Valencia where the off-throttle EBD is still allowed,
what stops a team like Red Bull from replacing their extreme engine map
with an extreme engine mode (still part of the race engine map) for use in
qualifing and also in the race for brief periods (e.g. at the start to
create a gap, to overtake or to defend a position)?

Mercedes: “Crucially, because all teams now use a common engine management system, there are limitations as to what any team can change with the car on-track, and these are only the engine “mix” settings. Fundamental changes to engine “modes”, where teams may chose to put aggressive or fuel-inefficient strategies into their cars for qualifying, can no longer be made for the race with the car in the garage or by the driver on-track.”

Thanks very much to Mercedes for reaching out to help bring this fan a little closer to the sport. I hope many others among you benefitted from this insight too.
James Allen
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by donskar » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:24 pm

Welcome MarkH! Please do contribute frequently to this forum. We can use a bit more clear technical input, especially on the black magic of ECUs.
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forty-two
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by forty-two » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:31 am

Scarbs has posted an excellent write up here:
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/07/0 ... -analysis/

Good work Craig!
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by Pierce89 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:21 pm

forty-two wrote:Scarbs has posted an excellent write up here:
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/07/0 ... -analysis/

Good work Craig!
truly an excellent write up.
Quite impressive Mr. Craig Scarborough
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Mjölnir
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by Mjölnir » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:23 pm

Once upon the time, they had drivers to race the cars - do you remember..

kind regards
Peter

FW17
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Re: New ECU regulations

Post by FW17 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:05 pm

MotoGP bikes are using a location based engine map which changes from corner to corner. Since GPS is banned location is mapped with markers on the track. Does F1 allow or use any such system which actively changes the engine map based on position on track rather than dials on the steering wheel?