Idea's for the next engine formula

[toraabe]

So you want an engine with 200 hp less and less than half the tourqe ?
It is no problem making turbo engines loud, but it has to do with the exhaust system.

It is much better to cranc up the power on the current v6 to 1200 hp instead to make the cars really fast.
Less wing and real groundeffect cars with moving skirts like Brabham bt49.

And I actually like the V6 sound much better than the screaming v8.

Bring back the 2013 V8 and update it with direct injection, variable (camless) distribution, variable trumpets etc in order to make it smaller, lighter, more efficient, more torquey and simply more modern.
Add a more powerful KERS and a real heat ERS if you want (no turbine please).
Why not a KERS-fed electric compressor for the low revs? Why not try thermoelectricity for the heat ERS...
Let the teams work on the batteries and super-capacitors...
Want to reduce drag? why not try to reduce radiator size... think about fans or refrigeration techniques or thermoelectricity etc.

That's how you keep the sound and the weight and even the costs under control. With a 645kg/755hp (close to the recent V8 era) we'd have at least a similar weight/power ratio as today but we would have much more room for innovation, cost reduction, safety imporvements, weight reduction etc.

Turbos are cool but these PU suit LMP1 cars (and real world cars) much better...
F1 dosnt need to copy everything they do. It should show them the way but should go a distinct way in the same time. Let them work on the turbos, dear F1, and follow your own way.

[wuzak]

So you want an engine with 200 hp less and less than half the tourqe ?
It is no problem making turbo engines loud, but it has to do with the exhaust system.

It is much better to cranc up the power on the current v6 to 1200 hp instead to make the cars really fast.
Less wing and real groundeffect cars with moving skirts like Brabham bt49.

And I actually like the V6 sound much better than the screaming v8.

No to skirts. That was the main problem with ground effects the first time around.

The V6T could be ramped up to 1000hp (total) by upping the fuel flow rate - using the same formula but capping the rate at 12,500-13,000rpm. The advantage of doing it that way is it lifts the engine into an rpm band which gives a more pleasant note.

[WaikeCU]

950 BHP Turbo engine
+
200 BHP Electric engine
+
ERS

Rules should say something like:
- Amount of cylinder is free of choice
- only electric drive allowed in the pitlane and during safety car period.
- ERS can charge up the electric engine and also offers a boost in performance

[Andres125sx]

I find it amazing how people is obsessed with power numbers...

To me efficiency is a lot more interesting, I´d prefer downsizing the PUs, and improving aero efficiency.

I´d enjoy a F1 with PUs similar to today, but smaller (1.0), and to compensate reducing drag allowing active aero, so top speed doesn´t decrease and could even increase, but cornering speed will also increase so laptimes would improve with smaller engines, lighter cars, and more advanced aerodynamics

The fastest series with the smallest engines, to me that´d be the real pinnacle of motorsports, achieving what any other series can´t even dream

[santos]

I find it amazing how people is obsessed with power numbers...

To me efficiency is a lot more interesting, I´d prefer downsizing the PUs, and improving aero efficiency.

I´d enjoy a F1 with PUs similar to today, but smaller (1.0), and to compensate reducing drag allowing active aero, so top speed doesn´t decrease and could even increase, but cornering speed will also increase so laptimes would improve with smaller engines, lighter cars, and more advanced aerodynamics

The fastest series with the smallest engines, to me that´d be the real pinnacle of motorsports, achieving what any other series can´t even dream

I don't know that if such a small engine would get the same power as the 1.6. But i don't belive that would be cheaper and that 4 engines would do for season.

[WaikeCU]

I find it amazing how people is obsessed with power numbers...

To me efficiency is a lot more interesting, I´d prefer downsizing the PUs, and improving aero efficiency.

I´d enjoy a F1 with PUs similar to today, but smaller (1.0), and to compensate reducing drag allowing active aero, so top speed doesn´t decrease and could even increase, but cornering speed will also increase so laptimes would improve with smaller engines, lighter cars, and more advanced aerodynamics

The fastest series with the smallest engines, to me that´d be the real pinnacle of motorsports, achieving what any other series can´t even dream

I don't know that if such a small engine would get the same power as the 1.6. But i don't belive that would be cheaper and that 4 engines would do for season.

I think Andres has a point and it's realistic. Just look at mobile phones. Things get smaller, thinner, lighter and yet they get more powerful and energy efficient at the same time.

[Andres125sx]

I don't know that if such a small engine would get the same power as the 1.6. But i don't belive that would be cheaper and that 4 engines would do for season.

I don´t pretend it to be as powerful as current 1.6, that´s the reason I said to compensate I´d allow active aero to reduce drag. Some sort of DRS for both wings, but not only open/closed positions, but fully proportional and adjustable to each corner. And obviously with free use for everyone the whole race.

Less power but also less drag so top speed will be similar

Costs shouldn´t change too much, and reliability.... they will last what rules say they must last, it´s power what will change depending on if they must last one race or four.

[PhillipM]

I find it amazing how people is obsessed with power numbers...

To me efficiency is a lot more interesting, I´d prefer downsizing the PUs, and improving aero efficiency.

I´d enjoy a F1 with PUs similar to today, but smaller (1.0), and to compensate reducing drag allowing active aero, so top speed doesn´t decrease and could even increase, but cornering speed will also increase so laptimes would improve with smaller engines, lighter cars, and more advanced aerodynamics

The fastest series with the smallest engines, to me that´d be the real pinnacle of motorsports, achieving what any other series can´t even dream

Because it would also mean it's a very boring sport, with very little power compared to available traction, slow acceleration out of corners, even poorer ability to follow other cars closely which we already suffer from, etc.
The aim is not to go around a circuit as fast and efficiently as possible, it's to provide a show.

[Andres125sx]

Active aero could compensate lack of downforce when in a slipstream

[Tim.Wright]

lowering the power to weight ratio any more is just going to put the cars even further under their grip limit than they are now.

The main problem now, with regard to the spectacle of the driving, is effectively one of power to weight. Not the PU power, but the power that the tyres can dissipate before degrading. The drivers need to drive so far under the limit that they simply can't make mistakes anymore. The further you are under the limit, the more cornering stiffness you have available for stability and control. That's why the driver's now simply ask for a target time and they stick to that.

Downsizing the engine and reducing the drag to recover the laptime is just going to make this situation worse because they will be grip limited (i.e. the part where the driver's inputs are critical) for an even smaller part of the lap.

[Andres125sx]

Thats a tyre problem caused by fia trying to increase overtaking, but not a rule of thumb in F1, it could be solved easily with better tyres, what is a must anycase

[PhillipM]

So now you have even more grip to go with your lower power?

So the cars are driving around on rails, nobody is overtaking anyone, nobody makes a mistake and everyone finishes in the order they qualified.
But hey, it's efficient!


Pity they're flying thousands of tons of gear around the world to drive around in circles going nowhere then really?

[wuzak]

The aim is not to go around a circuit as fast and efficiently as possible, it's to provide a show.

Actually, the aim of motorsports, all motorsports is to finish the defined race quicker than anybody else.

Entertainment is a latter day obsession, not the reason for being for motor racing.

[PhillipM]

No, entertainment is how it survives. Motorsport only exists because people found it entertaining to go faster around a track than someone else. Others only get into it because they find it entertaining.
Now it exists because it's a business revolving around entertaining spectators.

[Andres125sx]

So now you have even more grip to go with your lower power?

Who talked about more grip? I was thinking about tyres that does not degrade so fast so drivers can push harder without worrying about destroying his tyres in 4 laps

So the cars are driving around on rails, nobody is overtaking anyone

Why? As I said, active aero could compensate downforce lost when in a slipstream, so it would be the opposite, more overtakings

nobody makes a mistake

Why?

and everyone finishes in the order they qualified.

May I ask the reason you assume so many things without any reason?

But hey, it's efficient!

Yes, anyone can build an engine with more than 1000hp and downforce to corner >6Gs. That´s not a challenge anymore

But being the fastest series with the smallest engines, that´d be a challenge

Pity they're flying thousands of tons of gear around the world to drive around in circles going nowhere then really?

yes motoracing is a nosense, but some of us enjoy it