Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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MrPotatoHead
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Joined: 20 Apr 2017, 19:03
Location: All over.

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Muniix wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 20:48
https://goo.gl/photos/Rw5RmcZwvZxPeH3u9
https://goo.gl/photos/Rw5RmcZwvZxPeH3u9
Here is additive manufactured part made by Bastion Cycles here in Australia. One of the first commercially viable examples of 3D manufacturing.
Preview may need to select link to show
They are actually late to the party.
In 2015 the FAA approved the first 3D printed parts to fly - from GE. GE is leading the game when it comes to "3D Printing"
There is far more that is 3D printed out there than you might think.

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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Quite interesting to see the Ferrari 14' charge cooler, confirming they are made with micro tubes


Muniix
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Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 13:29
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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MrPotatoHead wrote:
31 Jul 2017, 18:42
Muniix wrote:
10 Jul 2017, 20:48
https://goo.gl/photos/Rw5RmcZwvZxPeH3u9
https://goo.gl/photos/Rw5RmcZwvZxPeH3u9
Here is additive manufactured Titanium part made by Bastion Cycles here in Australia. One of the first commercially viable examples of 3D manufacturing.
Preview may need to select link to show
They are actually late to the party.
In 2015 the FAA approved the first 3D printed parts to fly - from GE. GE is leading the game when it comes to "3D Printing"
There is far more that is 3D printed out there than you might think.
I did say commercial viable additive manufacturing from Titanium, further qualification being a consumer product, a very light weight cycle that has exceptionally good handling from compliance engineered in by the ex Toyota Australia chassis engineers who founded Bastion Cycles
Image

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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How much savings they got from that part?
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gruntguru
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Looks and sounds more like they were targeting a performance gain rather than savings.
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ripper
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Joined: 26 Aug 2015, 22:19

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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HAAS will use new PU this weekend. On different websites I've read that this new ICE will have new steel pistons (crafted with additive manufacturing?) and more pressure in combustion chamber.

Xwang
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Motorsport.it says that Mercedes is using the 4th Ice so that to be able to continue to consume oil at 1.2kg/100km instead of 0.9 as required for new units homologated from Monza onwards.
If it is true, does the same apply to Ferrari's next units since Haas has just homologated a new spec?

skoop
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Joined: 04 Feb 2013, 16:46

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Xwang wrote:
25 Aug 2017, 21:51
Motorsport.it says that Mercedes is using the 4th Ice so that to be able to continue to consume oil at 1.2kg/100km instead of 0.9 as required for new units homologated from Monza onwards.
If it is true, does the same apply to Ferrari's next units since Haas has just homologated a new spec?
That's wrong. The sonsuption limit will apply for all the engines

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Ferrari introduced steel pistons in the new engine. Assumed to be 3D printed to keep the weight at 400grams. Source Pat symmonds. But we will never know.

I personally don't think you need to 3D printed to achieve this weight though. But that they are using steel pistons is enough to digest! It opens up the discussion of heat management near the piston rings.
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63l8qrrfy6
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Joined: 17 Feb 2016, 21:36

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Le Mans diesels have been running steel pistons for a while and they were lighter than aluminium pistons even though they were forged rather than printed.

Given that the durability requirements in F1 are now in the same ballpark as Le Mans and that pistons have always been the critical component even in NA engines this is not at all surprising.

The 80's turbo era brought aluminium gallery cooled pistons, the high speed engine era brought high Be alloys and MMC. I've always pictured steel pistons to be the natural way forward for the current engine regs.

figo
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Joined: 03 May 2017, 13:14

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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According to Pat symmonds Ferrari is going to introduce their 4th and final ICE engine at Monza, which is believed that will feature 3D printed steel pistons and is expected to give great amount of performance gains.
So, if this is the case, what are the advantages of using 400gr steel pistons over 400gr aluminium ones?
It is clear that steel pistons can be more resistance to wear and will increase reliability of the ICE, but how the actual performance gains can be made??
They will increase the pressure on the combustion champer? If yes, how they will manage the huge increase in temperature?

wuzak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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figo wrote:
30 Aug 2017, 07:27
According to Pat symmonds Ferrari is going to introduce their 4th and final ICE engine at Monza, which is believed that will feature 3D printed steel pistons and is expected to give great amount of performance gains.
So, if this is the case, what are the advantages of using 400gr steel pistons over 400gr aluminium ones?
It is clear that steel pistons can be more resistance to wear and will increase reliability of the ICE, but how the actual performance gains can be made??
They will increase the pressure on the combustion champer? If yes, how they will manage the huge increase in temperature?
With steel pistons. :shock:

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factory_p
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Joined: 28 Jul 2016, 10:04

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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A nice chunk of performance comes from the fact a steel piston will handle many more knock events than an aluminium one. So when the manufacturers tolerated like 5 knock events (educated guess) on a quali lap with aluminium pistons - monitoring it with the onboard cylinder pressure regulation systems - they could take perhaps up to 20 or 50 (wild guess) with a steel piston. That gives you the opportunity to run that little bit of extra advance timing at the beginning of each straight, unlocking a handful of horses in the process.

As for 3D-printing, I'd assume one of the strong points is the capacity to create cooling channels in the piston where the jets squirt some oil, without the need of some friction welding or the use of a circlip to close these channels. That means creating cooling channels without creating a weak point in your structure. But that's easier said than done, so hats off Ferrari if they got it reliable.

wuzak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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factory_p wrote:
30 Aug 2017, 12:15
As for 3D-printing, I'd assume one of the strong points is the capacity to create cooling channels in the piston where the jets squirt some oil, without the need of some friction welding or the use of a circlip to close these channels. That means creating cooling channels without creating a weak point in your structure. But that's easier said than done, so hats off Ferrari if they got it reliable.
I don't agree. I think the steel piston will cope with higher temperatures, needing less cooling.

So then they will try to keep as much heat in the combustion chamber as possible, so the 3d printing may make a framework under the crown which holds a lot of air pockets and thus provides insulation.

Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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some plausible candidate steels eg maraging steels will anyway have thermal conductivities an order of magnitude 'worse' than aluminium alloys
(all steels will be much worse than al. alloys)
https://sffsymposium.engr.utexas.edu/Ma ... 2-Yasa.pdf
https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/12 ... _paper.pdf
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on 30 Aug 2017, 16:23, edited 1 time in total.

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