What was the first F1 car with paddle shifting?

[xpensive]

I think problem with buttons IRL, is that you momentarily loose the thumb-grip of the wheel, which could be a disadvantage.

Paddles can of course be operated by any finger.

[autogyro]

The button is exactly the same as a paddle, which operates a button anyway.
The paddle simply adds a lever to the button actuation.
Because the button is only operated over part of the lever movement, it is in fact less precise.
I do concede that ergonomically a well designed paddle is little different than a button in use and of course driver preference can make the difference.

Of course it could be made to be voice actuated (within the regulations?)

[RH1300S]

I think problem with buttons IRL, is that you momentarily loose the thumb-grip of the wheel, which could be a disadvantage.

Paddles can of course be operated by any finger.

A very astute comment - after all, we originally developed opposing thumbs to allow us to hold steering wheels.

Of course it could be made to be voice actuated (within the regulations?)

'Tally-ho' = change up
'Whoa' = change down

Brilliant, it works with horses, why not with cars.

[xpensive]

Unless you have the buttons on the back of the wheel(!), big mothers so you can easily find them in the heat of things.

Another way would be the "blow/suck in a straw" system developed for paralyzed people to manouver their electric chairs?

[bazanaius]

Just full on mind control - obviously open to hilarious consequences when the driver's mind begins to wander..

[xpensive]

Just full on mind control - obviously open to hilarious consequences when the driver's mind begins to wander..

I can see that happening, "What a boooring race, wonder if that pit-babe with the boobs is still there...?"

[bazanaius]

Because the button is only operated over part of the lever movement, it is in fact less precise.

I can't see how a digital control can be less precise? You press the button/paddle all the way - it changes state/sends a signal.
Whether there is play in the system before/after activation is purely a function of build quality or personal preference. It's very easy to build a paddle with less free travel than a button, or the other way around. It's just a question of what you want.

[Mystery Steve]

When I was still doing Formula SAE, we used thumb buttons on the steering wheel for shifting. It wasn't as bad as you might think, and I think I would have actually preferred it in those cars. Although, I never drove a paddle shift in those cars, but I couldn't see it being that different. Gripping the wheel while shifting wasn't really an issue because you shouldn't be shifting while cornering anyway unless you're trying to "pull a Piquet."

It really is an ergo thing and nothing else. If you prefer paddles then run paddles, or if you prefer a thumb button run a thumb button. It doesn't matter from a mechanical/electrical design point of view. I see the argument for paddles on an F1 wheel just to make room for the other controls, though.



Side note: Is there a way to manually control image size on here? Sometimes it's nice to post a picture, but I don't want to take up the entire screen...

[Giblet]

"What you host is what you post" is a good rule. You need to convert then host, or use a hosting service that converts for you.

I prefer big pics with no quality loss. Not like anyone of consequence is on dialup and needs to be considered these days.

[flynfrog]

f1t auto resizes for you

[Mystery Steve]

True, I could resize it... I'm just too lazy to do that. I was wondering if you could specify pixels the way you do with the avatars. I was thinking of doing it a little bit larger than a thumbnail so people don't have to scroll past them, but then can always right click for full-res... oh well, not a big deal I guess.

[autogyro]

When I was still doing Formula SAE, we used thumb buttons on the steering wheel for shifting. It wasn't as bad as you might think, and I think I would have actually preferred it in those cars. Although, I never drove a paddle shift in those cars, but I couldn't see it being that different. Gripping the wheel while shifting wasn't really an issue because you shouldn't be shifting while cornering anyway unless you're trying to "pull a Piquet."

It really is an ergo thing and nothing else. If you prefer paddles then run paddles, or if you prefer a thumb button run a thumb button. It doesn't matter from a mechanical/electrical design point of view. I see the argument for paddles on an F1 wheel just to make room for the other controls, though.



Side note: Is there a way to manually control image size on here? Sometimes it's nice to post a picture, but I don't want to take up the entire screen...

Changing gear in corners would be easy with a CV torque constant shift system.
Such a system would still be stepped and within the regulations.
I agree that buttons are at least as good as paddles.
Looking at the wheel in your pic however. The buttons are not in the best position and the wheel has little in the design for thumb grip. In fact the ally plate looks somewhat dangerous in a wheel spinning accident.

[xxChrisxx]

Formula student cars don't go fast enough to crash!

Thats a good point though. Was there enough room for the driver to grip with their thumb Steve?

[Mystery Steve]

When I drove it, I rested my thumbs right next to the buttons on the Aluminum plate so it was a very short reach to the button. Grip was never an issue. And we did have a slight wheel spinning accident that didn't present problems. Seeing as most of us were sophomores when we designed our rookie entry for FSAE we didn't understand that using Aluminum for a spindle wasn't a good idea, and during a test run the spindle sheared off and sent the LF wheel bouncing off in to the distance while I skidded to a stop. Thankfully, it was early on a Saturday morning so no one was around to get hurt by the spinning 25 lb dead weight with hot brake rotor still attached.

I think the picture might be a little misleading, I didn't actually "grip" the leather wrapping with my thumb when I drove. There isn't even enough room to fit your thumb between the Al plate and the wheel. I think that's what you were concerned with auto? These cars do see some lateral g-loading (approaching 1.5 g... depending on design), but it was still easy enough to drive. There weren't any problems with it as designed, although it might be able to be improved slightly.

In case you aren't familiar with Formula SAE or Formula Student, auto, a lot of teams have limited personnel. We had about 8 dedicated people building the car from scratch (none of the 8 had ever tackled a project like this before) in a span of 5 months, so naturally it was a bit of a time crunch right before the competition to get it finished. We started realizing things like "oh ---... we need a shifter system (among other things)," so this wheel was more of an exercise in "just make it work" than anything else. We did have problems with the air system leaking, but the ergo worked great given that it was thrown together at the last minute.

It's kind of hard to tell in the picture, but the Al plate is slightly recessed. The plane of the plate is about halfway deep in the steering wheel so there is a bit of room to wrap your thumb around the grip and just rest the tip of your thumb on the plate.

[autogyro]

Nice neat effort from what I can see.
I only mentioned the wheel design, because a spinning steering wheel in a crash can easily break thumbs, I know from personal experience in a 150bhp Mini.
Gripping the wheel with thumbs helps with control so long as the thumbs are removed from behind the wheel in a crash (should be a natural reaction).
Mt preference would be to have the buttons on the inside of the wheel for thumb operation, allowing the fingers to have a continual grip on the outside.