2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Do F1 rules permit the discrete usage - of the ~10% ETOH fuel fraction - as ADI?
Is use of 'inert' H2O - as ADI - allowed?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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This article contains a period Ricardo research graph showing the effect of ADI on high value BMEP efficiency..
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_110213/article.html
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Tommy Cookers wrote:whatever the notional 'best BTE' AFR is ….. there is no true 'best BTE' AFR for the F1 engine as it will not use a fixed AFR throughout even WOT running ? 'best BTE' AFR for 10500 rpm is only maintained above 10500 if cylinder charging is reduced with rpm to keep mass flow constant this means the CR is sub-optimal over 10500
The AFR can be controlled within reasonably close limits by controlling boost with the MGUH.
Tommy Cookers wrote:this problem could be addressed (as I suggested 2 years ago) by raising exhaust pressure relative to induction pressure so reducing crankshaft power and increasing recovered (electrical) power (and increasing overall efficiency)
but the rules limit this by constraining the use of electrical power via the MGU-K power limit so anyway there will surely be different 'best BTE' AFRs for different power envelopes ? (and surely in each race we want to use all the fuel allowed)
and the 'best BTE' AFR will surely change with future reductions in fuel allowance with the current fixed engine size etc and rpm ?
That would be so if the max-fuel-rate was also reduced in line with fuel allowance - which of course would make sense. Regardless, I don't think the best BTE AFR will change much, so a lower boost would be required to maintain AFR with the lower fuel rate. If anything best BTE AFR may get a little leaner due to lower thermal stress and knock tendency. A higher mechanical CR would be an obvious alteration.
Tommy Cookers wrote:BTW V Ganesan's book (3rd edition) appears to be available as a free download the Prof's view (on the value of fuel:air cycle predictions of gains from lean running of SI engines) can be read there (chapter 4.7 and eg figure 4.6) he says the best BTE occurs 'within the lean zone very near the stoichiometric ratio'
"very near" could mean anything.

My old 1986 copy of the Bosch Automotive Handbook includes a similar chart to the one in the post above. It shows best BTE lambda at around 1.15. The latest version shows 1.4 and says "20-50% air surplus" in the text. The Honda research in this link http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/04 ... -hlsi.html saw best BTE at 2.0 - and still a port injection system! Times are changing! (We even have word wrap on this forum.)

I think Professor Ganeson needs to publish an up to date edition.
Last edited by gruntguru on 22 Sep 2014, 04:31, edited 1 time in total.
je suis charlie

wuzak
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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J.A.W. wrote:Do F1 rules permit the discrete usage - of the ~10% ETOH fuel fraction - as ADI?
Is use of 'inert' H2O - as ADI - allowed?
No.

ADI is not allowed.

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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J.A.W. wrote:Do F1 rules permit the discrete usage - of the ~10% ETOH fuel fraction - as ADI?
Is use of 'inert' H2O - as ADI - allowed?
The rules only allow one DI injector per cylinder. I would be surprised if anyone is even using ethanol (unless it is mandated) due to its low energy density. Energy density has priority over octane rating.

I am sure water injection isn't allowed.
je suis charlie

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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J.A.W. wrote:Is this high efficiency SI - in F1 use?
http://www.federalmogul.com/en-US/Media ... _62013.pdf
Impressive!
je suis charlie

wuzak
wuzak
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:
J.A.W. wrote:Do F1 rules permit the discrete usage - of the ~10% ETOH fuel fraction - as ADI?
Is use of 'inert' H2O - as ADI - allowed?
The rules only allow one DI injector per cylinder. I would be surprised if anyone is even using ethanol (unless it is mandated) due to its low energy density. Energy density has priority over octane rating.
There is a minimum biofuel component in the fuel rules. Don't think it is allowed to be used separately.

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Thanks Wuzak. Is the octane number prescribed? If so I think the brewers would use a higher energy density, lower octane biofuel like bio diesel. The octane can easily be recovered in other ways.
je suis charlie

wuzak
wuzak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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J.A.W. wrote:Do F1 rules permit the discrete usage - of the ~10% ETOH fuel fraction - as ADI?
Is use of 'inert' H2O - as ADI - allowed?
To confirm:

5.14.2 Other than engine sump breather gases, exhaust gas recirculation, and fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden.

wuzak
wuzak
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:Thanks Wuzak. Is the octane number prescribed? If so I think the brewers would use a higher energy density, lower octane biofuel like bio diesel. The octane can easily be recovered in other ways.
Yes. The minimum octane is 87, defined by (RON + MON)/2.

Regarding the biofuel component:

19.4.4 A minimum of 5.75% (m/m) of the fuel must comprise bio-components.

19.4.5 Initially the bio-components are restricted to oxygenates. However, hydrocarbons (as defined in 19.2) and oxygenates (lying outside the 19.4.3 definition) or mixtures thereof, which have been produced from biomass, may be included in Formula One fuel as part of the 5.75% biocomponents quota, provided that a suitable analytical procedure is available for their quantification and to verify their biological origin. Their use in F1 fuel will be dependent on evidence indicating that the supplier is genuinely developing these compounds for use in commercial fuels.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Many thanks for that chaps.. ..& any knowledge of F1 use of SI-system - linked on final post of previous page?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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wuzak wrote:
J.A.W. wrote:Do F1 rules permit the discrete usage - of the ~10% ETOH fuel fraction - as ADI?
Is use of 'inert' H2O - as ADI - allowed?
To confirm:

5.14.2 Other than engine sump breather gases, exhaust gas recirculation, and fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden.


Would this rule imply that a BMW 801 C3-style fuel spray - on top of regular DFI - into the compressor air intake, is allowed?

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/ ... erung.html

Sorry - that link won't bloody work for me here..
Last edited by J.A.W. on 22 Sep 2014, 05:39, edited 5 times in total.
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

wuzak
wuzak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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J.A.W. wrote:
wuzak wrote:
J.A.W. wrote:Do F1 rules permit the discrete usage - of the ~10% ETOH fuel fraction - as ADI?
Is use of 'inert' H2O - as ADI - allowed?
To confirm:

5.14.2 Other than engine sump breather gases, exhaust gas recirculation, and fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden.


Would this rule imply that a BMW 801 C3-style fuel spray - on top of regular DFI - into the compressor air intake, is allowed?
Another rule covers that:

5.10.2 There may only be one direct injector per cylinder and no injectors are permitted upstream of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Ok, ta..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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@ Wuzak
Tommy Cookers wrote: JP 9 & 10 (cruise missile fuels) .... are outstanding in volume-specific energy but not in mass-specific energy

can't confirm gasoline sources better than 47 MJ UCV (ERC A 19A)

(bio) Isobutanol can be made into gasoline that fulfills the 5.7% biofuel obligation
IB from coal was used to make gasoline in WW2
BIB is now made 'commercially' as a feedstock for fuel manufacture
credit is due to a fellow poster for first mentioning this biofuel

the permitted lead level seems trivial, boosting Octane No by less than 1 in fuel of conventional composition
but Triptane is legal, and being very sensitive to lead if used as a major constituent it could deliver a gain of about 3 or 4 Octane nos
@ J.A.W .... plasma etc ignition is of course banned
btw thanks for various interesting links .... however ......

the famous Wright TC bsfc figure of .38 lb/hp-hr was at sea level (the TC was basically a USN project for patrol aircraft)
at 30000' the bsfc went down to .34 lb (at low ambient pressure the turbines recovered much more free power)
the 'per lb' heat value of Avgas being several % lower than the diesel fuel heat value ....
in efficiency terms the Wright was not beaten by the Nomad
(they sold about 14000 Wright TCs , many for patrol and unpressurised ? military transports)

it was touching to see the NASA paper showing Teled/Continental's desire to make at the taxpayer's expense a compounded CI engine
using materials that would never have been certified for civil aviation (or F1-legal)
and to see the Nomad report (and Mr Setright's book) in the list of references
(there is also the Hyperbar (French or Swiss ?) engine that has 15 bar boost)

interesting times ! ... one might think that ex-Napier people were hoping for work in the US
the Deltic was then used in some US fast boats, developed for ever-higher powers and with elusive reliability
btw the Soviet Union has a turbocompound 56 cylinder diesel that gives 5200 hp, advertised in Ukraine at $225000

the F1 rules seem clearly intended to prevent any heavily compounded engines as above
by the fuel rules and the limits on the use of compounded power