2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[dero]

You do not need 700Amp cables. You simply use a voltage on the cable side and have a voltage converter within the power electronics. Either way, I still would not use such a high regeneration rate from the front brakes. I think getting twice of what they have now is a good start.

Exactly my point. Thats why i said in the first place that available energy is not the problem here.
Twice as much can also be had from the rear axle.

As for voltage converters - generated voltage by the MGU is proportional to its rotational speed so you have to make a design decision here.
Also maximum voltage is limited by safety considerations and insulation. So that only leaves you with high current cables.
A second problem arises from P = U * I(rpm): Regenerative breaking does not work (good) down to zero speed!

The way to do it would be combined battery and capacitor storage. Capacitors absorb only the surplus beyond the battery's max charge rate and discharge into the battery later. Still - we are not going to see 1,600 kW MGUs, or even 700 kW for that matter.

Another point for consideration: One would surely not operate the MGU in its best efficiency region [1] but near its max. power region just because of saving weight. Lets say you end up with 90% eff. That would result in a 50kW (assuming 500kW) cooling requirement (for few % of lap) for the MGU!

My quick calculations where just meant to provide us with rough numbers. Im not saying it cant be done. System weight is a whole other story.


cheers Stefan

[1] ....
(C) Copyright http://www.johnsonelectric.com

[wuzak]

i wonder what would happen if instead of the 100kg maximum fuel limit, the FIA insisted on a fixed amount of fuel, that theoretically would mean the cars could run at the 100kg/hr fuel flow limit for the entire race.

we'd have no running in 'fuel saving' mode, the drivers can floor it out of every corner, and in fact are encouraged to push as hard as possible early in the race to burn the fuel off!

Or just underfuel.

but a mandated amount of fuel means they cannot under fuel, that would be against the regulations.

Only the maximum fuel used is mandated. The actual fuel to be carried is free - they could have 150kg on board if they want - but can only use 100kg from lights to flag. They could also run 50kg if they wanted.

[langwadt]

i wonder what would happen if instead of the 100kg maximum fuel limit, the FIA insisted on a fixed amount of fuel, that theoretically would mean the cars could run at the 100kg/hr fuel flow limit for the entire race.

we'd have no running in 'fuel saving' mode, the drivers can floor it out of every corner, and in fact are encouraged to push as hard as possible early in the race to burn the fuel off!

Or just underfuel.

but a mandated amount of fuel means they cannot under fuel, that would be against the regulations.

if you mandated that they start with more than they need they would just run extremely rich for the first few laps to burn
off the excess weight

Just like when they had to start the race with the same amount of they fuel put in before in qualifying

[matt21]

Does anybody have the current issue of Autosport and can upload the article about the proposed 1000hp engines?

[Nickel]

if you mandated that they start with more than they need they would just run extremely rich for the first few laps to burn
off the excess weight

Right. Or some variation of that.

Just like when they had to start the race with the same amount of they fuel put in before in qualifying

You lost me. In the format where quali was done with fuel for the first stint, I remember a lot of drivers trying to stretch the first stint. Not always, sometimes it played out the opposite, but I wouldn't say they over-fuelled for quali just to burn it off as excess running ritch at the start.

[FW17]

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
· 2h 2 hours ago

#F1 Lotus & Force India to run 2014-spec Mercedes engine at Jerez. Merc AMG & Williams test 2015 upgrade parts. AMuS: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 77520.html

If the Force India and Lotus chassis can be fit with both the 2014 and 2015 MHP engine, it means that there is no change in the over all architecture of the engine and all improvements are probably internal.

[aleks_ader]

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
· 2h 2 hours ago

#F1 Lotus & Force India to run 2014-spec Mercedes engine at Jerez. Merc AMG & Williams test 2015 upgrade parts. AMuS: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 77520.html

If the Force India and Lotus chassis can be fit with both the 2014 and 2015 MHP engine, it means that there is no change in the over all architecture of the engine and all improvements are probably internal.

Or slightly new head arrangement with VLIM includet. Anyway Merc also could also send to Lotus and FI all CAD basics templates of 2015 PU mockup to accommodate design accordingly during last season.

[Facts Only]

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
· 2h 2 hours ago

#F1 Lotus & Force India to run 2014-spec Mercedes engine at Jerez. Merc AMG & Williams test 2015 upgrade parts. AMuS: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 77520.html

If the Force India and Lotus chassis can be fit with both the 2014 and 2015 MHP engine, it means that there is no change in the over all architecture of the engine and all improvements are probably internal.

That's a bit of a red herring because FIF1 are running their 2014 car in Jerez so they wouldn't be able to run a 2015 PU. Perhaps Lotus are in the same position as well.

[rjsa]

That's a bit of a red herring because FIF1 are running their 2014 car in Jerez so they wouldn't be able to run a 2015 PU. Perhaps Lotus are in the same position as well.

Why?

[ian_s]

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
· 2h 2 hours ago

#F1 Lotus & Force India to run 2014-spec Mercedes engine at Jerez. Merc AMG & Williams test 2015 upgrade parts. AMuS: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 77520.html

If the Force India and Lotus chassis can be fit with both the 2014 and 2015 MHP engine, it means that there is no change in the over all architecture of the engine and all improvements are probably internal.

That's a bit of a red herring because FIF1 are running their 2014 car in Jerez so they wouldn't be able to run a 2015 PU. Perhaps Lotus are in the same position as well.

i cant see Lotus modifying their 2014 car to fit the 2014 Merc PU, i know Maclaren did it with the MP4-29H but that was for running back in october. it seems like a lot of effort for just 1 test

[rjsa]

If you switch engine suppliers, the one scorned will not provide units during winter testing.

So if a team wishes to complete a single lap, they'll have to be able to run the new provider's engine. Old chassis, new chassis, old engine, new engine, doesn't mater. New provider all times.

And seeing how limited change is, I find hard to believe a single chassis can't use both 2014 and 2015 specs of the same engine.

[ian_s]

If you switch engine suppliers, the one scorned will not provide units during winter testing.

So if a team wishes to complete a single lap, they'll have to be able to run the new provider's engine. Old chassis, new chassis, old engine, new engine, doesn't mater. New provider all times.

And seeing how limited change is, I find hard to believe a single chassis can't use both 2014 and 2015 specs of the same engine.

thats what i was meaning, Lotus could use their 2015 car with the 2014 Merc engine with less work than if they used their 2014 car.

[Facts Only]

That's a bit of a red herring because FIF1 are running their 2014 car in Jerez so they wouldn't be able to run a 2015 PU. Perhaps Lotus are in the same position as well.

Why?

Why what?

It's a red herring because FIF1 running a 2014 PU in Jerez is meaningless because they are running their 2014 car.

I bet that Lotus are running the 2014 PU so that HPP can get some direct comparative data to the 2014 Renault PU. Similar to when FIF1 first switched to Mercedes power in 2009, Pedro De La Rosa was brought in to drive the 2008 Force India with the Ferrari engine so that they could bench mark the rival power unit. (De La Rosa being the McLaren Mercedes test driver at the time).

[dren]

It was clarified in another thread that Lotus is running the 2015 PU.

[Facts Only]

It was clarified in another thread that Lotus is running the 2015 PU.

Makes sense. Everyone is running the same year PU as their car. So a bit of a non-story from Gruner.