2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[Abarth]

Maybe so in qualifying. Hamilton had Vettel by almost a second.

Engine difference will only partly account for this. Mercedes is the faster car, especially over one lap.
Over distance, this advantage has to be managed by Merc. as the whole car caracteristic is more centered on sheer speed, eating up tyres.

I never bought all these huge power difference numbers, be it between different engines, be it from 2014 to 2015.
The boundaries are too narrow as to be able to have a 50+ hp advantage, if all components work as allowed (i.e. MGU-K able to put out 120kW, ES to comply with heavy charging/discharging cycles, etc.).

[Abarth]

Just WOW!

Yeah, and Toyota not far behind.
Toyota with a V8 normally aspirated 3,7 l V8 petrol engine.
Porsche with a 2l V4 turbo charged petrol engine
Audi with a 4l V6 turbo charged diesel engine

Exciting, and it shows that it must not be a small low fractioned turbo charged engine to deliver good efficiency under racing condition, i.e. with high WOT percentage.

[aleks_ader]

Just WOW!

Yeah, and Toyota not far behind.
Toyota with a V8 normally aspirated 3,7 l V8 petrol engine.
Porsche with a 2l V4 turbo charged petrol engine
Audi with a 4l V6 turbo charged diesel engine

Exciting, and it shows that it must not be a small low fractioned turbo charged engine to deliver good efficiency under racing condition, i.e. with high WOT percentage.

+take in account Nissan. So 4 different MJ classes, 4 different ICE, 4 different ES system and also 4 ERS configurations. Its engineering porn.

Sadly rules dont allow "infinity" energy flow (like those battery bypass in F1) direct from one ERS to another (yes the rules will became insanely HARD to control "torque vectoring etc", but that is my ONLY small glimpse on the ACO%FIA ruleset). =D>

Just now we wait for no one of LMP1 "privateers" goes and opted one the F1 PU powertrains (real or not, in theory yes)...
.

[kudryavchik]

Interesting, which engines are more advanced. F1 turbo engines or f.e. Porsche 919 LMP1 engine?

[bill shoe]

Yea, wow. The Porsche could visually demonstrate its power advantage in an abrupt, simple way that no other modern top-line race car can. 30 years from now people may be talking about the amazing Porsche 919 hybrid from 2015. It's here now so enjoy it.

[Harsha]

I was wondering since James Allison said "Mercedes has extra boost for qualification which is giving them some more BHP"
Is it only Q map or some thing like that?
Do any one has any idea about how the Mercedes are eeking out more BHP

[mrluke]

Its probably just a reaction to Mercedes (well Hamilton) having a gap to the Ferraris that is less obvious in the race.

[ringo]

I was wondering since James Allison said "Mercedes has extra boost for qualification which is giving them some more BHP"
Is it only Q map or some thing like that?
Do any one has any idea about how the Mercedes are eeking out more BHP

Considering Hamilton's gap to the rest when he qualifies, maybe mercedes boost is explained by the drivers as Paddy lowe says.

But i feel it's more the grip of the cars. The mercedes clearly has more grip all over than the ferrari.

[Blackout]

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

[ian_s]

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

isnt that just talking about the 'overtake' button? the one that causes a wastegate to open, powers the compressor (and turbine) by the MGU-H, and runs the MGU-K at full power too?

[trinidefender]

New idea popped into my head and maybe this might be a little far fetched and I'm really not sure if it actually has any benefit but it is an idea none the less.

Let's look at this reg: 5.2.4
The MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging
system. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched.
The rotational speed of the MGU-H may not exceed 125,000rpm.

The way I read that is maybe it would be possible for an engine manufacturer to clutch the MGU-H to the turbine. This is not the original idea part and as many have pointed out it would seem like you are contravening the fixed ratio part by clutching it. However what if you think about it as a gearbox. The regs specify 8 forward gears of fixed ratio. Neutral is not counted as a gear/ratio. What if FIA thinks of decoupling the MGU-H via a clutch to not be changing the speed ratio but simply as a "neutral" of sorts. This way an engine manufacturer can either run the MGU-H clutched at a fixed ratio or completely decoupled from the turbine itself.

With the current way engines are set up I can't really see how this is an advantage but ya know, it popped into my head.

[wuzak]

If you slip the clutch to gain variable speed you are dumping energy through heating the plate and are expediting the failure of the clutch which, remember, cannot be replaced in the sealed Power Unit module. If power units are used equally through the season then this clutch will have to operate for 5 race meetings.

Then again, if there are problems with one or more of the MGUH modules, one will have to last significantly longer.

[trinidefender]

If you slip the clutch to gain variable speed you are dumping energy through heating the plate and are expediting the failure of the clutch which, remember, cannot be replaced in the sealed Power Unit module. If power units are used equally through the season then this clutch will have to operate for 5 race meetings.

Then again, if there are problems with one or more of the MGUH modules, one will have to last significantly longer.

I wasn't really talking about slipping the clutch per say, although I had thought about the possibility. But maybe in a situation where you the ES is full (almost never) but you don't want any power flowing into or out of the MGU-H. Honestly I can't really think of a situation where this design would be useful, especially with the added weight, complexity and higher chance of failure as a result. Honestly I just sat down and thought about various components and how they interact and this thought came to me, a sort of brainstorming session.

However, as we all know, much of the original engine rules and base design features were set out by the engine manufactures themselves. Therefore I find it curious as to why this allowance for a clutched MGU-H was placed in there. Can anybody think of a scenario where it might be useful to clutch the MGU-H?

[giantfan10]

Maybe so in qualifying. Hamilton had Vettel by almost a second.

Engine difference will only partly account for this. Mercedes is the faster car, especially over one lap.
Over distance, this advantage has to be managed by Merc. as the whole car caracteristic is more centered on sheer speed, eating up tyres.

I never bought all these huge power difference numbers, be it between different engines, be it from 2014 to 2015.
The boundaries are too narrow as to be able to have a 50+ hp advantage, if all components work as allowed (i.e. MGU-K able to put out 120kW, ES to comply with heavy charging/discharging cycles, etc.).

the mercedes pu has a mode in qualifying that the ferrari cant match at this point in time (continuous 4MJ for a lap i think)... this is said to be part of the coming ferrari engine upgrade... the mercedes qualifying mode cant be run in the race because it will kablamo the engine.
in race trim the ferrari has a more aggressive and efficient ERS than the mercedes... the ferrari can run their ERS for the entire race at lets say a "high setting" the mercedes cannot do this and has to run in a "low setting" for periods in the race.
so mercedes qualifies up front and gets an automatic advantage (hamilton ) running in clean air while everybody behind has to deal with the famous lack of grip in dirty air.Thats pretty much the advantage mercedes has right now over ferrari.. qualifying. i suspect if a ferrari lucks into qualifying on pole they will probably do exactly the same thing hamilton in the mercedes does.. manage the gap and watch the competition deal with oversteer in dirty air

[wuzak]

If you slip the clutch to gain variable speed you are dumping energy through heating the plate and are expediting the failure of the clutch which, remember, cannot be replaced in the sealed Power Unit module. If power units are used equally through the season then this clutch will have to operate for 5 race meetings.

Then again, if there are problems with one or more of the MGUH modules, one will have to last significantly longer.

I wasn't really talking about slipping the clutch per say, although I had thought about the possibility. But maybe in a situation where you the ES is full (almost never) but you don't want any power flowing into or out of the MGU-H. Honestly I can't really think of a situation where this design would be useful, especially with the added weight, complexity and higher chance of failure as a result. Honestly I just sat down and thought about various components and how they interact and this thought came to me, a sort of brainstorming session.

However, as we all know, much of the original engine rules and base design features were set out by the engine manufactures themselves. Therefore I find it curious as to why this allowance for a clutched MGU-H was placed in there. Can anybody think of a scenario where it might be useful to clutch the MGU-H?

I imagine there will be a phase where the turbine and compressor are balanced, and there is insufficient excess power to drive the MGUH. De-clutching the MGUH would lower the inertia of teh system, enabling better response.

And this may be required to enable the MGUH to switch from motor to generator mode.