2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[godlameroso]

There's definitely more than one way to skin a cat, so maybe it's not just the "TJI" or this or that, it's a bunch of little things here and there that start adding up to a lot. What I'm saying is that this is only part of the puzzle a lot of these combustion technologies work much better with forced induction(or diesel engines), and with these MGU-H's there is a lot of control over air intake and turbine back pressure. There's not magic bullet, it's a synergy of different techniques, all working in the aim of maximizing combustion. You also have a source of electricity, a source of heat, there's a lot you can do with this as well.

Say the TJI works, but it works even better when you inject the fuel in a super critical state, and works even better when you use a turbine to maximize the benefits of lean burning, and works even better when you add custom fuel to take advantage of this, and works even better when you have the full support of an engine manufacturer to play and try things.

[gruntguru]

Without doubt the current F1 PU's are the result of a very large stack of "works even better"'s.

[ringo]

Toyota is also a company capable of entering and competing in terms of grand scale engine development.
I beleive had the rules been 4 cylinders instead of 6, we would see BMW enter the game. I don't think they have any interest in a V6 turbo.
I personally think we need to just go back to the V10s, direct injection and a KERS. The V6T has been fun but it's lost the shine because of it's lack of sound and lack of information on the actual engines themselves from the manufacturers.
3.5 litre V10, 15,000rpm, direct injection, valve lift, KERS, and call it a day.

[godlameroso]

I don't think we've seen the limits of the performance these engines can deliver yet. If the regulations didn't change at all I think we'd see another second and a half improvement across the board next season. It's not just the peak power that increases but the power curve, and the drivability, and the breaking all improve. And every year the teams make a step forward with the chassis. Plus it's fun to play power unit detective, I've learned a lot being wrong all the time.

[FPV GTHO]

Toyota is also a company capable of entering and competing in terms of grand scale engine development.
I beleive had the rules been 4 cylinders instead of 6, we would see BMW enter the game. I don't think they have any interest in a V6 turbo.
I personally think we need to just go back to the V10s, direct injection and a KERS. The V6T has been fun but it's lost the shine because of it's lack of sound and lack of information on the actual engines themselves from the manufacturers.
3.5 litre V10, 15,000rpm, direct injection, valve lift, KERS, and call it a day.

The rule was for I4's though, not simply 4 cylinders. When thr manufacturers changed it to V6's, part of the reason was because the engine had to be a stressed member of the chassis, and a V was favourable for that.

[Jolle]

Toyota is also a company capable of entering and competing in terms of grand scale engine development.
I beleive had the rules been 4 cylinders instead of 6, we would see BMW enter the game. I don't think they have any interest in a V6 turbo.
I personally think we need to just go back to the V10s, direct injection and a KERS. The V6T has been fun but it's lost the shine because of it's lack of sound and lack of information on the actual engines themselves from the manufacturers.
3.5 litre V10, 15,000rpm, direct injection, valve lift, KERS, and call it a day.

The rule was for I4's though, not simply 4 cylinders. When thr manufacturers changed it to V6's, part of the reason was because the engine had to be a stressed member of the chassis, and a V was favourable for that.

Wasn't it more a veto from Ferrari that an l4 was not Ferrari worthy? If I remember Mercedes and Renault were in favour of a l4.

[djos]

Toyota is also a company capable of entering and competing in terms of grand scale engine development.
I beleive had the rules been 4 cylinders instead of 6, we would see BMW enter the game. I don't think they have any interest in a V6 turbo.
I personally think we need to just go back to the V10s, direct injection and a KERS. The V6T has been fun but it's lost the shine because of it's lack of sound and lack of information on the actual engines themselves from the manufacturers.
3.5 litre V10, 15,000rpm, direct injection, valve lift, KERS, and call it a day.

The rule was for I4's though, not simply 4 cylinders. When thr manufacturers changed it to V6's, part of the reason was because the engine had to be a stressed member of the chassis, and a V was favourable for that.

Wasn't it more a veto from Ferrari that an l4 was not Ferrari worthy? If I remember Mercedes and Renault were in favour of a l4.

Renault also decided they wanted a v6, it was pretty much just Mercedes backing the I4 in the end.

[f1316]

So with all the '5 seconds faster, talk, the 1000 Bhp talk seemed to get lost.

Not that it matters and with lack of restrictions they'll probably be there or thereabouts anyway.

What I, at least, have not heard about for ages is the question of the sound; last I remember, the engine manufacturers had been set the challenge of improving the sound - and were said to have possible some solutions - but nothing else seems to have come out.

Anybody able to shed some light on the current state of play?

[ringo]

I don't think we've seen the limits of the performance these engines can deliver yet. If the regulations didn't change at all I think we'd see another second and a half improvement across the board next season. It's not just the peak power that increases but the power curve, and the drivability, and the breaking all improve. And every year the teams make a step forward with the chassis. Plus it's fun to play power unit detective, I've learned a lot being wrong all the time.

Yes we haven't seen the limits, but even id they are increased further, we are not able to percieve how good the engines are.
For example the 2016 Merc PU can be much improved over the 2014 unit, but it doesn't really change much in terms of how the cars look on track or how the engines sound.
The fuel limit is killing the sport, the minimum weight is also too high, as well as lack of refuelling. These things are preventing the engine side of the sport from being a spectacle.

[Pierce89]

The rule was for I4's though, not simply 4 cylinders. When thr manufacturers changed it to V6's, part of the reason was because the engine had to be a stressed member of the chassis, and a V was favourable for that.

Wasn't it more a veto from Ferrari that an l4 was not Ferrari worthy? If I remember Mercedes and Renault were in favour of a l4.

Renault also decided they wanted a v6, it was pretty much just Mercedes backing the I4 in the end.

You've got Renault and Merc reversed there.

[djos]

Wasn't it more a veto from Ferrari that an l4 was not Ferrari worthy? If I remember Mercedes and Renault were in favour of a l4.

Renault also decided they wanted a v6, it was pretty much just Mercedes backing the I4 in the end.

You've got Renault and Merc reversed there.

Possibly, they did definitely threaten to quit if the turbo hybrid PU wasnt broght in tho.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/11/ ... ing-in-f1/

Caubet also confirms that Renault threatened to pull out of F1 altogether if the new generation 2014 engine wasn’t introduced, “We pushed the FIA to conclude on new regulation – concluded in June. Either the new regulation is clear and we will stay in F1 or we keep the same engine and Renault will stop,” he said. 


The 2014 engine is very important to Renault because it wants to scale down road car engines and the push is towards turbo hybrids, which is what the F1 engines will be. Just as Renault pioneered turbo engines in F1 and then took them to road cars, now turbo hybrids will tie F1 to the consumer market.

Edited due to autospell corrections i'd missed.

[Pierce89]

So with all the '5 seconds faster, talk, the 1000 Bhp talk seemed to get lost.

Not that it matters and with lack of restrictions they'll probably be there or thereabouts anyway.

What I, at least, have not heard about for ages is the question of the sound; last I remember, the engine manufacturers had been set the challenge of improving the sound - and were said to have possible some solutions - but nothing else seems to have come out.

Anybody able to shed some light on the current state of play?

You've not heard about the "sound generator"? I'm actually not joking.


http://en.f1i.com/news/56430-fia-develo ... rator.html

[f1316]

So with all the '5 seconds faster, talk, the 1000 Bhp talk seemed to get lost.

Not that it matters and with lack of restrictions they'll probably be there or thereabouts anyway.

What I, at least, have not heard about for ages is the question of the sound; last I remember, the engine manufacturers had been set the challenge of improving the sound - and were said to have possible some solutions - but nothing else seems to have come out.

Anybody able to shed some light on the current state of play?

You've not heard about the "sound generator"? I'm actually not joking.


http://en.f1i.com/news/56430-fia-develo ... rator.html

A sound generator, huh? Isn't that otherwise known as an engine?

Thanks for the info though. Seems an inorganic way to do it - at this point anything would be a contrivance but there are, you'd imagine, less manufactured ways to do it (fuel flow > higher revs rather than separate 'device').

[FW17]

What will happen if the cylinder walls, head and piston crown are coated in gold to reflect the heat away from the walls?

[godlameroso]

You get even more wall quenching? The combustion chamber and cylinders are already surrounded by water jackets. The best coatings are the ones that minimize friction while managing heat.

http://articles.sae.org/10507/

https://www.google.com/patents/US5816211

https://www.google.com/patents/US4573517

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil