I've discussed this offline with Auto, so I now how it works... I won't give away the details; that's for auto to do if he wishes... If u go back to his dedicated thread you'll read that it uses multiple motors to achieve [EDIT: full power seamless] shifting. My concern with the concept after running some numbers through it was the huge torque required by these motors to achieve the shift with them in their current position. (They're not really shown in the diagram).
Auto, i'll leave it to u to divulge where you've put the motors -if u wish.
Last edited by machin on 14 Feb 2011, 23:44, edited 2 times in total.
The issue that I noted with autogyro's transmission concept is that it lacked a synchronizing function as shown. If, as you claim, it employs an auxiliary motor to synchronize the speed of the unloaded gearset, then that would be theoretically possible. And it would not require a large motor power, as you stated. The motor would only need enough power to overcome the friction and inertia of the unloaded gearset.
However, the problem with this approach occurs when you consider that the electric synchronizing motor must have a totally separate drive to each of the potential 12 shift points. That would be very complex in practice.
riff_raff
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"
Wouldn't this model have a lot of inertia as well as opposed to the sheer efficiency proclaimed earlier on? And also bigger than normal friction by driving at least 3 gears at any time?
I've been censored by a moderation team that rather see people dying and being shot at terrorist attacks than allowing people to speak the truth. That's racist apparently.
Wow! That looks like an extract from the patent application that autogyro previously mentioned. Thank you for posting it.
As for the OP, there was a chap in autogyro's original thread who suggested using a cone within a drum. The inside of the drum was essentially a giant ring gear, and the cone was stepped in gears like a sun gear. It then needed magic selectors to engage planet gears between the cone and the drum. Essentially, it was a conventional CVT using cones and stepped gears instead of a sliding belt.
Also, autogyro mentioned the thing can also have a hybrid function. So the thinking is that the outer drum spinning round acts as a generator/motor which in turn enables the synchronisation.
actually, i think gear change in Autogyro's concept can be done without external motors. Planetary gears itself can be turned into simple electric motors. Difference between what i'm thinking and standard electric motors is that what we want is that we wouldn't try to switch polarities to make it spin, but instead to magneticaly atract gears to the sun's axle. I think desingning circuit to automaticaly engage locking pins when steady state (synchronisation) is achieved wouldn't be too hard either.
I guess the unused gearsets could be used as generators in such solution. So all that would be needed to perform a gear change would be to change gear's powering circuit from source to sink and applying some DC or AC voltage on it depending on how it would be made. Sorry if it sounds bit bizzare but i would need to sort it all out in my mind first to properly describe it ;D
Autogyro's diagram reminds me of a pro-stock application but with all in one case.
of course to compare these is similar to finding a neaderthal with a big(block) club at a dinner party
Sadly, I can't see the pic Autogyro posted. My idea is much simpler. It will use two cones, one with fixed gears, and the other with sliding gears. It will be dog engagement, with the slider along it's bottom. The input gear/cone, which might be one solid piece, is lighter and smaller in diameter than the output cone, which is located beneath it with both cones axises (Axi?) parallel. If nescessary, the cones could be flipped in case regulations allow a lower crankshaft-to-road height. Also, the transmission fluid could be pumped through a special wall for additional cooling. This wall would be similar in structure to the hexagonical structure of the aluminum chassis, but designed so that it can circulate air from the outside into the wall, and cool the atf on the other side. This is only an idea, though. The creation of such a wall would be ludicrously expensive and difficult to construct, maintain, and clean. But the design on the transmission seems solid. Rather than having a thick ribbed shaft and the nescessary extra metal needed to provide enough structural strength to transfer the torque acrass the gears, the hollow cone grows with the size of the gears as the ratio increases.
There are several drawbacks I can think of, like increased surface area for parasitic drag, difficuly building the hollow bearings, difficulty designing a shitfer that will quickly slide the large ring-like gears on the output cone, and circulation of lubricant, but a few clever ideas could reduce these drawbacks possibly further than the drawbacks of the trannys in use.
The main advantages are decreased inertia, smaller size, the inside of the cones could have vanes that use pre-existing drag to aid or entirely provide circulation if the lubricant, and it's a new design that might have other advantages I have yet to forsee. And please, keep discussing things. I love learning.
"Those who dance are often thought mad by those who cannot hear the music."
"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything."
