Group B Too Fast To Race

[strad]

Group B Too Fast To Race

Group B was introduced by the FIA in 1982 and quickly resulted in cars that blew the lid off anything that had ever raced on gravel in the past. The cars were the most technologically advanced vehicles the world had ever seen, they were lightweight, exceedingly powerful and staggeringly unsafe machines that performed, essentially, like a rally version of a Formula 1 car.

1Hr 4min 376Mb Divx codec

[MIKEY_!]

kind of a shame it didn't last

[timbo]

kind of a shame it didn't last

A shame it was allowed altogether. It's a luck there's only a handful of fatalities with the way rally was organized back then.
The bravery and skill required to tame those machines are to be admired, but really, it was simply too much.

[MIKEY_!]

had it lasted longer modern safety features could have been implemented, like safety cells and kevlar fuel tanks etc in my opinion if people are willing to take risks (so long as they don't endanger others) then go for it!

[wesley123]

If that was in place it still would have been way too dangerous. We currently sometimes even have a high crash resulting in lots of body harm or even death, with these monsters that would have been even worse, with a tub and all that stuff or not.

[timbo]

had it lasted longer modern safety features could have been implemented, like safety cells and kevlar fuel tanks etc in my opinion if people are willing to take risks (so long as they don't endanger others) then go for it!

Just yesterday two drivers died in rally incident in S2000 car. There are still occasional spectator deaths. Safety cell won't do much out of raceway. It is designed to take a specific kinds of impacts.

[MIKEY_!]

People know the risks (and if they don't, they should), if you go to watch a rally there is a slim chance of death. If you don't want to take that chance watch it on TV or go to the cricket. Same goes for drivers, if you are unwilling to take that chance, stick to chess. A safety cell can't protect against everything of course (nothing can), but its better than the protection drivers used to have and its a lot better than what MotoGP riders or whatever the off road equivalents have. Group B was essentially an extreme sport, you may not approve but so long as it's not endangering people who have nothing to do with the sport, it can't legitimately be stopped - BASE jumping is a good (if off-topic) example.

[timbo]

Group B was essentially an extreme sport, you may not approve but so long as it's not endangering people who have nothing to do with the sport, it can't legitimately be stopped - BASE jumping is a good (if off-topic) example.

The reality of Group B was that the cars were simply too fast to get them reliably controlled, combine that with the nature of rally stages and the crash is inevitable. I'm not opposed of Group B cars on rally cross circuits but on public roads it's like bicycle racing without helmets. Taking risk is one thing, but the measure of risk should be taken seriously. When you argue that the drivers do not endanger anyone but themselves, don't forget they have families, and don't also forget that there's a codriver in the car.

[strad]

This echos another discussion.
Modern rally cars are direct descendants of GroupB and like F1 what was taken away is clawed back elsewhere.
Don't ya think?
Since stages change so much it would be hard to make any direct performance comparison but.......

[MIKEY_!]

Nothing is too fast to race, under the right circumstances. Treat Group B as an extreme sport rather than a semi-mainstream sport and it's acceptable. Do others agree that Group B was and extreme sport?

[Nando]

If i´m not mistaken.. the WRC cars of today is way way quicker over a stage then any Group B car?

[amouzouris]

If i´m not mistaken.. the WRC cars of today is way way quicker over a stage then any Group B car?

yes you are right...times were reduced by the suspension improvements over the years
edit: and tires

[richard_leeds]

IMHO the consensus in society is that avoidable fatalities in sport should avoided.

Jackie Stewart has an anecdote of being trapped in a car with petrol running over him and thought "this isn't right". In those days driver fatalities were accepted as part of the sport, "big boys don't cry" and all that machismo stuff.

Take boxing as an example. Even in a sport where the objective is bash your opponent senseless they take great lengths to avoid fatal injuries and brain damage. Better glove design to reduce impact forces, stricter medical rules before and after fights.

I can see the libertarian viewpoint that people should have a right to participate in sports that might result in deaths, mountaineering is a good example. However, deliberately not bothering to avoid an avoidable accidents is a step too far. So I'm all in favour of motorsport limiting the power and speed of cars in the name of driver & spectator safety. In my mind it is the same as making seat harnesses and helmets compulsory.

[JAllen]

Biggest problem has to be the way the rallies were run, looking at the crowd control (or lack thereof) in mainland europe and southern america, shows you just how lucky they were to have as few fatalities as they did.

Inevitably the cars would have become much safer year on year (group s was on its way, with 300bhp max), but some of the rules back then do seem a little strange nowadays. For example aeroquip hoses were not mandatory on the cars so all teams (bar one, toyota?) used standard hose and hose clips to save weight.

That said, it was my Dads group b videos that gave me my love of motorsport, just amazing to watch

[jon-mullen]

Part of the argument in the movie is that the cars were so spectacular that they drew massive and rowdy crowds that the governing body was not prepared to deal with. And by gum they are incredible to watch.

Personally I'd rather see motorsport be less popular than see it be popular among "that element" that has a taste for blood. There was a time when the winningest drivers were the bravest/stupidest, and we all know an element of risk is still there, but that doesn't make it part of the DNA of the sport and it doesn't mean preventing avoidable injuries detracts from the sport.