Formula E

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
mzso
0
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Formula E

Post by mzso » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:11 pm

Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I don´t think that´s real.

A battery is a fundamental part of any electric setup, wich means an experimental battery with unknown problems will ruin the season of any team willing to assume the risk, as any problem with the battery is an automatic DNF and prototype batteries tend to fail

To use a new battery on FE it must be proved and tested, and if any manufacturer have a new battery proved and tested it is ready or almost ready for the market, and releasing a new battery to the market will bring the manufacturer uncomparable benefits.

Take for example LiS batteries, they´re still under development, on the phase of prototype testing on, for example, Solar Impulse. It has suffered some fire I think, or at least some battery problems because they´re still under development. On a FE car that would be even more problematic as the charging and discharging rates are higher, so I don´t think any racing team is willing to assume the risk of ruining his whole season while developing some new battery
You're wrong on many regards. But I won't address most of it because, because you'll just keep wasting my time with more nonsense (as usual).

You're just assuming they'd be using the battery for the whole season, but that's not set in stone.
Problem with a battery is not more of an automatic DNF than a problem with the motor, or suspension. This is just another assumption you pulled out of thin air.

RicME85
58
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:11 pm
Location: Derby

Re: Formula E

Post by RicME85 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:45 pm

The batteries have to be crash tested before they can be used.
Per the original tender, MAT will be required to submit the battery for crash testing by June 1 2017, and a test battery must be available to teams by November 1.
You arent going to be putting experimental batteries in racecars for this reason.

mzso
0
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Formula E

Post by mzso » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:34 pm

RicME85 wrote:The batteries have to be crash tested before they can be used.
Per the original tender, MAT will be required to submit the battery for crash testing by June 1 2017, and a test battery must be available to teams by November 1.
You arent going to be putting experimental batteries in racecars for this reason.
I don't see that as a problem. Some so-far not marketed technologies are actually safer than plain Li-ion cells in on the road cars. Such as the tesla ones which catch fire when penetrated, because they have flammable electrolytes.
eg:

If memory serves, the same enhanced safety is true for the other round-the-cornert battery tech: Solid electrolyte batteries and Lithium-silicon batteries.
(Not sure about more far-off batteries, such as Li-air)

I fail to see why couldn't more battery providers sign up, so that teams could pick whichever they like. And switch if need be a limited amount of times a year

Jolle
70
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Formula E

Post by Jolle » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:40 pm

Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I don´t think that´s real.

A battery is a fundamental part of any electric setup, wich means an experimental battery with unknown problems will ruin the season of any team willing to assume the risk, as any problem with the battery is an automatic DNF and prototype batteries tend to fail

To use a new battery on FE it must be proved and tested, and if any manufacturer have a new battery proved and tested it is ready or almost ready for the market, and releasing a new battery to the market will bring the manufacturer uncomparable benefits.

Take for example LiS batteries, they´re still under development, on the phase of prototype testing on, for example, Solar Impulse. It has suffered some fire I think, or at least some battery problems because they´re still under development. On a FE car that would be even more problematic as the charging and discharging rates are higher, so I don´t think any racing team is willing to assume the risk of ruining his whole season while developing some new battery
There is a difference between "experimental" and "state of art". FE packs are state of art. Just like any part of any racing car it's a balance between weight, performance, strength and reliability.

Andres125sx
254
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post by Andres125sx » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:13 am

mzso wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I don´t think that´s real.

A battery is a fundamental part of any electric setup, wich means an experimental battery with unknown problems will ruin the season of any team willing to assume the risk, as any problem with the battery is an automatic DNF and prototype batteries tend to fail

To use a new battery on FE it must be proved and tested, and if any manufacturer have a new battery proved and tested it is ready or almost ready for the market, and releasing a new battery to the market will bring the manufacturer uncomparable benefits.

Take for example LiS batteries, they´re still under development, on the phase of prototype testing on, for example, Solar Impulse. It has suffered some fire I think, or at least some battery problems because they´re still under development. On a FE car that would be even more problematic as the charging and discharging rates are higher, so I don´t think any racing team is willing to assume the risk of ruining his whole season while developing some new battery
You're wrong on many regards. But I won't address most of it because...
.... because you cannot :lol:

As argued on my downvote, if you want to be this patronizing, you should expose some argument. Well, at least if you don´t want to be considered a bigmouth

Andres125sx
254
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post by Andres125sx » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:22 am

Jolle wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:Sorry but I don´t think that´s real.

A battery is a fundamental part of any electric setup, wich means an experimental battery with unknown problems will ruin the season of any team willing to assume the risk, as any problem with the battery is an automatic DNF and prototype batteries tend to fail

To use a new battery on FE it must be proved and tested, and if any manufacturer have a new battery proved and tested it is ready or almost ready for the market, and releasing a new battery to the market will bring the manufacturer uncomparable benefits.

Take for example LiS batteries, they´re still under development, on the phase of prototype testing on, for example, Solar Impulse. It has suffered some fire I think, or at least some battery problems because they´re still under development. On a FE car that would be even more problematic as the charging and discharging rates are higher, so I don´t think any racing team is willing to assume the risk of ruining his whole season while developing some new battery
There is a difference between "experimental" and "state of art". FE packs are state of art. Just like any part of any racing car it's a balance between weight, performance, strength and reliability.
Exactly, FE batteries are not experimental, they´ve been extensively tested and proved safe.

But even without considering safety, who´d pay for a battery wich has not been tested and can perform great but it can also finish your race before expected?

mzso
0
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Formula E

Post by mzso » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:05 pm

Andres125sx wrote:As argued on my downvote, if you want to be this patronizing, you should expose some argument. Well, at least if you don´t want to be considered a bigmouth
Hah. You wish.
You're not gone rope me into your time-wasting madness again. There's just no point in arguing with some people, because they can't comprehend the arguments.
Andres125sx wrote: who´d pay for a battery wich has not been tested and can perform great but it can also finish your race before expected?
Any team in any formula series for example. Because that's the essence of most formula series, running custom-engineered, unproven prototypes.

Paul
21
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:33 pm

Re: Formula E

Post by Paul » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:15 pm

Teams can be pretty ruthless with their suppliers, however. Red Bull/Renault comes to mind immediately, but that's not the only example.

Andres125sx
254
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post by Andres125sx » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:38 pm

mzso wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:As argued on my downvote, if you want to be this patronizing, you should expose some argument. Well, at least if you don´t want to be considered a bigmouth
Hah. You wish.
You're not gone rope me into your time-wasting madness again. There's just no point in arguing with some people, because they can't comprehend the arguments.
Indeed
mzso wrote:
Andres125sx wrote: who´d pay for a battery wich has not been tested and can perform great but it can also finish your race before expected?
Any team in any formula series for example. Because that's the essence of most formula series, running custom-engineered, unproven prototypes.
Sorry but no, they´re not competing to test custom engineered prototypes, they´re competing to win. If using any custom engineered prototype may provide an advantage, they´ll give it a try, period. But only if the benefits may be bigger than the risks. That does not apply with prototype batteries as the risk is several orders of magnitude higher than the posible benefits. It´s not an unproved suspension wich if not working as expected will cause laptimes to increase some tenth, with batteries any fail will mean a DNF, so nobody will risk all their job to some unproven battery.

If any PU manufacturer say they can provide a PU with 10% more power than the rest, but they cannot guarantee reliability so it could stop working from time to time. Do you think any team will pay for that PU?

Paul
21
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:33 pm

Re: Formula E

Post by Paul » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:45 pm

You're describing current Merc F1 PU, aren't you? :mrgreen:

Andres125sx
254
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

Post by Andres125sx » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:39 pm

Spark won the tender and they will continue as chassis supplier for FE in 2018 and 2019

http://www.sparkracingtechnology.com/en ... ason-5-car

This is the SRT05E =P~
Image
Image
ImageImage

And they finally did what I was hoping for since season one, get rid of wings. When you don´t need tons of downforce there´re much better solutions, with much better L/D ratios, than wings.

Probably similar filosophy to the Aston Martin hiper car, and also Roborace.... Maybe we´re seeing the origin of a new era on aerodinamycs?

biker_ev
0
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:04 am

Re: Formula E

Post by biker_ev » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:31 pm

Non open wheel formula car - but I really like it!

FrukostScones
156
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: European Union

Re: Formula E

Post by FrukostScones » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:24 pm

And people wonder why the end is near.
Game Over! NVWSSV is here.

Facts Only
271
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:25 am

Re: Formula E

Post by Facts Only » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:46 pm

Looks good, reminds me of F-Zero or Wipeout.

This is what Formula E should have looked like from the start, not the shoddy looking Indy car knock-off they came up with originally.
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

Tim.Wright
417
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:29 am

Re: Formula E

Post by Tim.Wright » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:57 pm

Andres125sx wrote:This is the SRT05E =P~
According to motorsport.com it's just a concept. They won the tender but they haven't settled on a final design yet as the car is still in development.

Mildy related, but there's something about racecars with styled bodywork which really kill it for me...
Not the engineer at Force India