Next Generation of World Rally Cars

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br21
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by br21 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:33 pm

Very interesting season in front of us. Cars will be really powerful, with similar (already big) amount of torque like they had this season. Active diffs will make big difference in handling, also much more advanced aero will be big and important factor.

roon
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by roon » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:31 pm

br21 wrote:Very interesting season in front of us. Cars will be really powerful, with similar (already big) amount of torque like they had this season. Active diffs will make big difference in handling, also much more advanced aero will be big and important factor.
I agree, should be interesting. I wonder how much aero will make a difference in this new formula, considering the big mechanical changes. Toyota looks to have taken fullest advantage of the new dimensional/aerodynamic rules—compact radiator ducting, side mirror wings, huge rear wheel extractors, center exhaust blowing over top the diffuser. The diffuser itself is remarkably well integrated. From the rear it looks like a contorted LMP.

Image

BanMeToo
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by BanMeToo » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:21 pm

Wow. These things are going to fly :shock:

Pierce89
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by Pierce89 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:38 am

roon wrote:
br21 wrote:Very interesting season in front of us. Cars will be really powerful, with similar (already big) amount of torque like they had this season. Active diffs will make big difference in handling, also much more advanced aero will be big and important factor.
I agree, should be interesting. I wonder how much aero will make a difference in this new formula, considering the big mechanical changes. Toyota looks to have taken fullest advantage of the new dimensional/aerodynamic rules—compact radiator ducting, side mirror wings, huge rear wheel extractors, center exhaust blowing over top the diffuser. The diffuser itself is remarkably well integrated. From the rear it looks like a contorted LMP.

http://hanabi.autoweek.com/sites/defaul ... k=GksIcwzZ
The Citroen has a HUGE diffuser also.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

roon
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by roon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:15 am

True, and dive planes up front. Something I don't recall seeing on a WRC car before.

I noticed the diffusers on the Citroen, Ford, VW, & Hyundai all jut out past the rear bumper. The Toyota's is flush. So maybe their rear suspension/chassis/drivetrain accommodates this in a way which the others don't. I would think minimal overhangs would be beneficial in rally.

Another thought is yaw. These cars spend a lot of time in it. How much downforce dropoff might there be when pivoting these cars at high speeds? Was that ever an issue in Group B?

br21
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by br21 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:55 pm

For sure those aero things were developed to work when car going sideways also.
For me main thing is how those big aero packages will last, especially during gravel rallies.
Interesting as active diff will mainly affect tight corners and aero will affect high speed corners.

sonnybobiche
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by sonnybobiche » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:22 am

roon wrote:Another thought is yaw. These cars spend a lot of time in it. How much downforce dropoff might there be when pivoting these cars at high speeds?
Good question. I would think that wings with lots of vertical fins like some of the iterations of Toyota's design would cause stalling when going anything but forward. But the thing that really leaves me scratching my head is how they get around the pitch problem with the rear diffuser. These cars necessarily have huge suspension travel and pitch up and down like crazy. Wouldn't that cause big instability in downforce as well?

Please be gentle guys, it's my first post and I haven't studied aerospace engineering in more than a decade.

MadMatt
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by MadMatt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:36 pm

Rallycars make more downforce sideways than in straight line, which make sense. Why would you need that much downforce (and drag) going in a straight line! :)

roon
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by roon » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:48 am

Second place finish for Toyota's return.

https://youtu.be/FUafkTc_VZY

nokivasara
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by nokivasara » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:07 pm

roon wrote:Second place finish for Toyota's return.

https://youtu.be/FUafkTc_VZY
And today they got their first victory, in their second race =D>

TBH Thierry Neuville in a Hyundai was much faster but he lost the lead again, for the second rally in a row, due to bad luck and a little mistake on the last turn of the last stage yesterday.

Pierce89
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by Pierce89 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:46 pm

The new cars are so quick they cancelled stage 12 for excess speeds.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

nokivasara
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by nokivasara » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:29 pm

Indeed, the average speed was 137kph IIRC and the upper limit is 130kph. That could have been avoided with a more twisty section within the stage but I guess the speed of these new cars got everyone off guard!
I must say that even if I'm not a big fan of the kit car style I enjoy the new breed of cars more than I'd thought.
Often when there are big rule changes to make the racing/rallying better for the fans the changes instead lead the other way, but not this time!
I think they should have renamed the WRC, these cars are closer to Group B monsters than last years WRC cars, both in looks and power. But the most amazing thing with rally cars IMO is the suspension travel, look at the cars when they have the inner wheel way down in the ditch, yet the car sist perfectly level! And the way they land after a jump, truly amazing.

I really hope that the new wide era F1 cars also surprice me, in a good way.

Pierce89
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by Pierce89 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:31 pm

nokivasara wrote:Indeed, the average speed was 137kph IIRC and the upper limit is 130kph. That could have been avoided with a more twisty section within the stage but I guess the speed of these new cars got everyone off guard!
I must say that even if I'm not a big fan of the kit car style I enjoy the new breed of cars more than I'd thought.
Often when there are big rule changes to make the racing/rallying better for the fans the changes instead lead the other way, but not this time!
I think they should have renamed the WRC, these cars are closer to Group B monsters than last years WRC cars, both in looks and power. But the most amazing thing with rally cars IMO is the suspension travel, look at the cars when they have the inner wheel way down in the ditch, yet the car sist perfectly level! And the way they land after a jump, truly amazing.

I really hope that the new wide era F1 cars also surprice me, in a good way.
It's also cool how the flat floor folds down to accommodate full droop over the jumps.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

TEHNOS
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by TEHNOS » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:35 pm

Image

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TEHNOS
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Re: Next Generation of World Rally Cars

Post by TEHNOS » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:37 pm

[youtube]OU3h02M8kY4[/youtube]



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