Le Mans 24 hours 2008

[SoundMan]

i would suggest that the cars lift at 90deg to airflow because they are essentially poorly shaped wings in cross-section.

the flow would find it very difficult to flow under the car, but over is no problem, thus the majority would tend to do this....

with the sides and cutaways inboard of the cars sides, u get a pressure distribution that could be causing the phenomenon of lift at 90deg angles. i admit that it is a very poor wing shape, but the profile would cause this thus it seems plausible. of course, once it starts to incline to the airflow, it simply continues unabated because there is nothing to stop it.

pic may help elucidate. blue is lower pressure

[SoundMan]

maybe to counter this, there needs to be a rule for 'Side Wings'.

my image isn't that clear, i know, but it shows the idea.

simply a wing that runs the length of the body between the wheels, possibly should be set lower to not obscure drivers view. when car is in 90deg slide when out of control, the car would then not have the tendency to flip.

[SoundMan]

organisers looking into rule changes: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68235

i wish that they wouldn’t always go about reducing down force, it seems moving air has become as a 'dirty' practice!

to stop the cars flipping when 90deg to airflow, look at doing something that’s cool and fresh... not the usual response... 'what’s that teams?... downforce, how distasteful.. you’re not allowed that u filthy git"

[WhiteBlue]

I thought that ACO had a point there. The tracks havn't changed, but the performance of the cars have. It is a regular thing to curb performance when too many accidents are happening. One can argue about the way they are doing it. Is the downforce cut from the diffusor the right thing? If it slows the cars in the corners it should do the trick. In the end it is the same for all competitors and it will make the sport safer for the drivers. What alternatives do they have? cutting engine power would be worse I think. Taking away some doenforce will make the driving more spectacular with constant power. The regeneration will even increase the power.

[RacingManiac]

Its about time ACO do something though, even if just to slow the cars down. The cars have only been faster than now in 3 instance in the history of Le Mans. 1971, 1988, and 1989. All 3 years the track have been the chicane-less mulsanne straight. The laptime Peugeot did yesterday is only 3 sec slower than the lap Sauber C9 did with a full straight doing 400kph. One can only imagine how much faster the car actually can go, and how fast it is already going. One have to think now that the big accidents we've been seeing might just be because the cars are going so much faster now in the corner that the margin for error is tremandously small now that once the driver lost it in the corner, be it as aero, obsticle on track, curbing or what have you will cause a massive shunt regardless....

Another interesting note, the Petrol time have stood still for the last little while, hovering around 3:30s, while the Diesel cars have improved by 10 sec. Of course being factory backed helps, but it probably says a lot about how much power they are making.......

[WhiteBlue]

...Another interesting note, the Petrol time have stood still for the last little while, hovering around 3:30s, while the Diesel cars have improved by 10 sec. Of course being factory backed helps, but it probably says a lot about how much power they are making.......

the Diesels are generating in excess of 1000 Nm of torque which is produced in a relative small rev band. it means tremendeous drivability at all levels of speed. so you will probably find that they make the difference more at low to medium speed corners and during acceleration.

[zac510]

Poor Aston Martin Team Modena having a nightmare couple of days!

[Ogami musashi]

Like soundman, how pitiful it is to reduce downforce..Allan Mcnish just said that the tyres were the reason why pace increased so much.

But even if speed is an aggravating factor this is not the speed the reason, this is the design of the cars themselves.

I think a slowing down is a good short term answer, but not on the longer term.
The problem won't cured, and for example if another car flips even at lower speed but lands on another..what's next??

It seems to me like FIA's proposals from 2000's whose only answer to overtaking was "cut downforce, cut downforce and cut downforce"...

Hopefully OWG was created.

[WhiteBlue]

do they have mass dampers in LMPs?

[zac510]

I don't think they have mass dampers in LMP1s but some of the top cars have third (pitch) dampers very similar to top end open wheelers.

[Ray]

Good luck Team Corvette! Really neat in-car (helmet cam) view of Johnny O going around the track. Glare was horrible, and his commentary was drowned out by the engine. But that's cool with me, the sound is amazing. TURN YOUR VOLUME DOWN! It's really really loud.

[Miguel]

Hi guys,

Just want to show here my support to the rookie team Epsilon Euskadi. As far as I know, it's the first spain-designed prototype to run in le-mans, although it has an uncanny resemblance with the Peugeot. They aren't breaking any records for now, but have been decent in the races (although slightly slower than I expected). IMHO, it's a good first step in order to create some racing tradition here.

Regarding laptimes and the petrol vs diesel war, aren't petrol cars very handicapped against diesels? If it weren't the case, they wouldn't have relaxed the air restrictors a bit for this year. In any case, what amazes me most is that the "factory cars" (Audi and Peugeot) are so much faster than anything else.

Regards

EDIT: Has anyone ever been there? I want to persuade somebody to go with me to Le Mans one year (as well as Spa, but the tickets at Eau Rouge are expensive), so if anybody has any experience regarding off-track activities, ambient and stuff, it will be appreciated.

[johny]

It's a huge proyect and they finally can make the race with 2 cars. It's a pitty they haven't secured any sponsorship but let's give some time.

Petrol cars are really handicapped, also we have to note that both diesels come from big manufacturers and they have lots of development. ACO has taken acount of that and next year they'll make some changes to air restrictors.

Talking about aesthetics, IMO the ee-1 is the nicest looking prototipe, going back to covered ones is a good move. In terms of performance it lacks a bit but maybe it's due to being a young project. Other new cars like lola or dome seem to be real competitors of pescarolos to gain the petrol battle.

Según me ha comentado un amigo que estuvo en las 24 horas el ambiente es tremendo y yo me estoy pensando bastante subir un año.

[RacingManiac]

As opposed to the petrol car being more restricted its rather the diesel being quite "unrestricted". The restrictor rules as it worked out in 2006 basically was to lure Audi and Peugeot in, which in the end killed off any chances for the privateer LMP1 teams. Regular P1s are supposed to have 600-650bhp, while the diesels are openly claiming upward to 800 in Peugeot's case.....that's on top of the 1000+nm of torque.....

Though I suspect that's only half of the story, as the difference between factory and privateer teams accounts for the other half. As we've seen the closest competitor in US for Audi ends up being the factory LMP2 cars, which probably under the skewed rules taking into account of tank size and fuel economy, weight and speed being the closest possible rival for the Diesel P1, at least in N.American type circuit(though the win at Road America last year and Sebring this year made me think its actually that close outright, just at Le Mans it'll be very tough because of the top speed difference).

I am really surprised by the pace of the Dome, all things considered the car have ran a minimum of mileage. No racing prior to Le Mans, and have been testing at most for 1.5 month, and the car was born out of a newly calibrated windtunnel with supposed correlation issue. And here it is, running hot on the heel of the other petrol coupe that have been running since March.....

[timbo]

Cn anybody explain raised nosecone of Peugeot 908 and Audi R10? From the first glance I don't see any benifit is it only for the looks?