New Indycar for 2012

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Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:56 am

bill shoe wrote:Here is a great quality article about the 2012 Indycar.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... ent-issues

The article rather calmly discusses an immense number of technical and project-management issues. It's a rare opportunity to learn something from a difficult project.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: serves them right only reason Dullarra got the contract was on a bizness model, they might want to track down the DP01's , , blow up IMS and just shut down this :lol: :lol: series and start over, they are so f****ked, notice the comment about the piece of crap they gave HRT, just cannot make this dung up :lol: :lol:
cossie
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2007

Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:31 am

DW12 is a reference to the late Dan Wheldon who died at Las Vegas in that massive crash!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos
 
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:15 pm

Its the new no wheel to wheel contact car.. When first referenced as the DW I and I think others thought we were on about the Delta Wing
Confusion caused by the initials DW
There are two things in this world that take no skill: 1. Spending other people’s money and 2. Dismissing an idea.
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:25 pm

The purge starts at IMS
After a season of non-stop controversy, including starting a race in the rain and a lack of consistency in applying on-track penalties, Brian Barnhart has finally been removed from Race Control in INDYCAR.

SPEED can report that Barnhart will be offered to stay on the payroll as president of operations but will no longer have anything to do with the officiating or managing of IZOD IndyCar Series races.

INDYCAR CEO Randy Bernard was unavailable for comment but indicated a few weeks ago that some major changes were forthcoming.

In addition to removing Barnhart as chief steward and director of racing, Bernard is also replacing Terry Angstadt with Mark Koretzky, who served as director of business development for IndyCar in 2011.
With Al Unser Jr's ouster from Race Control in October adding to Barnhart's demotion, the control tower will look much different when the season opens next March in St. Petersburg. (IndyCar Series)

Angstadt had been president of the commercial division of the IndyCar Series since 2007.

Barnhart and Angstadt were also the last major links to Tony George’s old Indy Racing League regime.
more on the Dullarra failure

"Yeah, it's evil on entry, not sure about what to say in the middle [of the corner] and then it pushes like crazy. It's just nasty getting in; an ill feeling, and I had two or three big moments today. With most cars you can anticipate what's coming, but with this car, you're not sure what to expect. We were far from trimmed out, [but] had to put most of the downforce back in

The engine manufacturers were asked to provide more power for the test at ACS, and according to one of the camps, it did not result in the straight-line speed improvement that was expected, which would point to excessive drag continuing to limit the car’s top speed.
Karma is a bitch :lol: :lol:
cossie
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2007

Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:32 pm

Thia is from Gordon Kirby with Bruce Ashmore. it explains how Dallarra got the bid, it was rigged

"So everything is a compromise. They spent all that time going to a new car and then they boxed themselves into a corner. Then on top of all that they've further compromised it by telling the teams they've got to race on NASCAR racetracks."

Ashmore has a bleak view of the process that took place in last year's contest for IndyCar's 2012 car. He believes each of the contestants was used unethically by IndyCar and Dallara to produce the new car.

"In my view the way they went about it was quite dishonest. All of us competing car builders had to sign our ideas away. All our ideas went into a pot and we had to sign a document saying that if we didn't win the contract they kept our ideas.

"That's one thing, but the sad part is they awarded the contract to a racing car building company in Italy who are just building another in a range of racing cars. It's a lot like their other cars and they're not using all the ideas that we put forward. They're only scratching the surface and, as I say, making a five percent step. They completely ignored a lot of what we suggested. They've just done what they felt like.

"All of our ideas and Lola's ideas and Swift's and the Delta Wing group's ideas went in and they took our ideas to make this new car. But they only took a small portion of them so that they've only made a five percent step. So what's the point?"

Ashmore remains dismayed and deeply disappointed with the way the Iconic committee's decision unfolded.

"I put my heart and soul into the design of a car that I believe they wanted to win the bid. I designed what I thought should have been the next Indy car and it could have been used as a rule book or it could have been used as a spec car. I offered it both ways. It would have been a spec car built in Indianapolis with Indianapolis companies and suppliers. Or it could have been used as a rule book.

"We lost the bid because the winner put in a business plan, not a plan for the car. It was a building on Main Street in Speedway and a business plan for the build and supply of all the cars but nothing for the design of the car. The rest of us believed we were putting in a plan for the design of a car and that the winner would be the best design.
cossie
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2007

Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:58 pm

...welcome to the real world of business?
Grip is a four letter word.

2 is the new #1.
Jersey Tom
 
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: Huntersville, NC

Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:46 pm

Indycar was extremely focused on getting Dallara to "win" the supply from a business point of view. This apparently led to Indycar forgetting that somebody, somewhere needed to carefully spec and manage the car. Someone needed responsibility and authority to do this.

If Dallara was really good and really supportive of Indycar then MAYBE they would have done this on their own. Realistically it is expecting too much of a supplier to do this if the original customer (Indycar) has no clear idea what they want.

I don't know anything about Tony Cotman, but he was Indycar's "project manager" for the 2012 car when it was going through the selection process and initial contract with Dallara. I think Cotman must have some responsibility for the bad process that led to the current car/situation. Then Cotman decided to leave the project before the car turned a wheel, and now some engineer named Phillips has to figure out how to make the mess work.

Anyway, lots of good lessons, and not just about Indycars or racing.
bill shoe
 
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Post Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:16 pm

Jersey Tom wrote:...welcome to the real world of business?


And racing -- at all the upper levels -- is a business. Surely not news?
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Texas, USA

Post Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:47 am

I find it interesting that KV Racing Technology isn't going to run with Lotus engines, they're going to use Chevrolet ones. Why not Lotus? They're sponsored (heavily) by Lotus. Can anyone enlighten me?
"You're so angry that you throw your gloves down, and the worst part is; you have to pick them up again." - Steve Matchett

Patiently waiting...
scuderiafan
 
Joined: 6 Nov 2010
Location: United States

Post Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:06 am

scuderiafan wrote:I find it interesting that KV Racing Technology isn't going to run with Lotus engines, they're going to use Chevrolet ones. Why not Lotus? They're sponsored (heavily) by Lotus. Can anyone enlighten me?


That would involve Lotus spending money on building a new engine which they cant afford.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos
 
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:52 am

Think they got 4 teams to run their Judd engine. Still not hit the track though
WilliamsF1
 
Joined: 6 Jan 2010

Post Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:07 am

this is how low things have circled the drain, Newman/Hass closed thier doors today no $$$$ to buy new cars , no sponsorship, 2nd KV not running Lotus not really the story ole Kevin owns Cosworth with Forseyth, this crap you just cannot make up . ineptitude XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX100000000000000000000000, try to make a cheap car get stuck with a cheaply built pile of crap, the DP01 didn't even come close with all the problems the league has had, and Cotman oversaw that project also, but the didn't have a desighn shoved down thier throatsand the way they treated Lola, Swift and Panoz i really doubt that they want any further dealing with this bunch of idiots
cossie
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2007

Post Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:10 am

WilliamsF1 wrote:Think they got 4 teams to run their Judd engine. Still not hit the track though

VAPORWARE :idea: :idea: :idea:
cossie
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2007

Post Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:12 am

scuderiafan wrote:I find it interesting that KV Racing Technology isn't going to run with Lotus engines, they're going to use Chevrolet ones. Why not Lotus? They're sponsored (heavily) by Lotus. Can anyone enlighten me?

Cut ties with Lotus after they picked Judd to build thier engines and not Cosworth , which Kalkovean owns
cossie
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2007

Post Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:42 am

The Lotus/Judd engine is actually rumored to weigh some 40 lbs. or so less than the Chevrolet and Honda units.

When you take into consideration that one of the DW12's greatest teething problems is excess weight, particularly weight distribution (too much rear weight)this Lotus/Judd "vaporware" may prove particularly advantageous.

Provided Indycar can even sort itself out. It's sad days for North American open-wheel racing.
The secret of man's being is not only to live but to have something to live for.
- Dostoyevsky
Adam Tate
 
Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Texas

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